an "off-topic" section... Yes. I am looking into it, actually. -- (code-wise, I mean) Why? I was thinking that an Off Topic section should be 'voteless' even worse Again, why? PM is a place for... wait for it... perl. So? if you want off topic hoohah, go start a journal at use. put it in your sig. go bother people at SQL Sybarites or Java Junkies. SQL Sybarites? sibilance, son. sibilance. Harrumph. eventually people will hear "that perlmonks place can really help you with your SQL" or whatever and people will post utter drivel about how they like 3rd normal form for their person CD Database, and how it gets optimized on a nightly basis and blah blah blah a voteless arena would also encourage the trolling community, too. Okay, you win.