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in reply to Re: Perl 5 Optimizing Compiler, Part 7: Video Chat w/ Ingy & Reini, Today 9/18 8pm Central Time
in thread Perl 5 Optimizing Compiler, Part 7: Video Chat w/ Ingy & Reini, Today 9/18 8pm Central Time

Many other have told this to you. And I don't really want to pour water on your enthusiasm. ... Your time is better spent either solving the pressing problems Perl 5 has. Or contributing to the Perl 6 project.

I would think you'd have learned already -- the Chill is on a mission -- and none of your annoying "don't experiment, do what I say" naysaying is going to steer that river avalanche in a different direction

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Re^3: Perl 5 Optimizing Compiler, Part 7: Video Chat w/ Ingy & Reini, Today 9/18 8pm Central Time
by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Sep 18, 2012 at 07:17 UTC
    none of your annoying "don't experiment, do what I say" naysaying is going to steer that river avalanche in a different direction

    Nor should it.

    Why are people so intent on keeping Perl5 stuck in its rut?

    With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
    Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
    "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
    In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

    RIP Neil Armstrong
[reply]
      Why are people so intent on keeping Perl5 stuck in its rut?

      Sounds like a false dilemma to me!

      I'd like a faster Perl 5, but given my experience trying to get a performant Perl 6 and Parrot, I think I have some practical thoughts on what makes a Perl implementation fast or slow and how to get there from here.

      If you want to get more than 5% here or 10% there, you have to address the difficult problem, namely that the current Perl 5 implementation optimizes for dynamicity, whereas in the real world, code that's already into its runtime is 90% static. Perl 5's polymorphism is in the wrong place because it was too expensive in 1993 to put it in the right place.

[reply]
        Sounds like a false dilemma to me!

        You hear what you want to hear.

        There is nothing false about:

        • Hey. We're investigating X; come and join in if you are interested.
        • It's a waste of time; it can't be done; you shouldn't even try; it's anti-Perl; anti-Larry; anti-FOSS; anti-us -- and tantamount to genocide to even try.
        I'd like a faster Perl 5, but given my experience ... naysay, naysay... If you want to get more than 5% here or 10% there, naysay, naysay ...

        Is just more of the same.

        Have you ever profiled to see where Perl spends most of its time? I have. In order: stack manipulation; memory allocation; testing for the presence of magic; doing actual work.

        Have you ever measured how many clock cycles it takes Perl5 to allocate 2 new scalars, push them onto its stack(s) and transfer control to code that pulls them off manipulates them, produces an answer, allocated space for it, pushes it onto the stacks and return control to the "caller"?

        Have you ever contrasted that with doing the identical steps using the C-stack. Still dynamically; full SV-style manipulations; no compile-time optimisations. Just switching the C stack for Perl's 4 heap stacks?

        I have. And there is a crap load of room for a performance hike. Conservatively 200% looks doable without changing Perl's syntax or semantics. Maybe much more.

        But there is no point in trying to discuss it; because the naysayers have already decided the outcome of all possible investigations and strategies. Or so they seem intent on us believing.

        My question -- my false dilemma as you prejudge it so off-handly -- is why? Why do they want us to believe it? What harm is it to them, if someone else chooses to try?

        With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
        Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
        "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
        In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

        RIP Neil Armstrong
[reply]
        chromatic,

        Can you please elaborate on the proper & improper places for Perl5's polymorphisms?

        Thanks,
        ~ Will
[reply]
      Everybody hates change. Except communists and terrorists.
[reply]

        Everybody hates change. Except communists and terrorists.

        Didn't you ever keep the change?

        Oh right, money is the change :)

[reply]

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