scratchpad
sauoq
<h3>cblogparser for [castaway] <em>(Thanks!)</em></h3>
<code>
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
@ARGV = grep { !/^\s*\||\|\s*$/ } @ARGV; # Don't allow pipes.
use Getopt::Std;
my %opt;
getopts('t', \%opt);
my $TIMESTAMPS = $opt{ t };
die "Usage: $0 [-t] file ...\n -t Add timestamps.\n" unless @ARGV;
require Text::Wrap;
while ( my $line = <> ) {
$line .= $_ until ($_ = <>) =~ /^\s*\];/; # Append lines until we find end.
$line .= $_; # Append that last line.
$line =~ s/^[^[]*//; # Prep for eval'ing.
my $aref = eval $line;
die $@ if $@;
pretty_print_message($_) for (@$aref);
}
sub pretty_print_message {
my $msg = shift;
my $txt = $msg->{ text };
my $out = $TIMESTAMPS ? "[$msg->{ time }] " : '';
$txt =~ s/&(lt|gt|amp);/${{lt => '<', gt => '>', amp => '&'}}{$1}/g;
unless ( $txt =~ s!^/me !! ) {
$out .= "<$msg->{ author }> ";
} else {
$out .= "* $msg->{ author } ";
}
my $indent = length $out;
$out .= $txt;
print Text::Wrap::wrap('', ' ' x $indent, $out), "\n";
}
</code>
<hr>
<h2>Closure Games</h2>
<p>An example of a closure returning a reference so it can sort of be used as an lvalue. (Note that I don't necessarily recommend this technique for anything in particular. No matter what the problem is, it is like there is a better way to do it than like this... :-)</p>
<code>
{
my $c = 0;
sub counter { $c++; \$c }
}
print ${counter()}, "\n" for 1..3;
${counter()} = 0;
print ${counter()}, "\n" for 1..3;
${counter()} = 99;
print ${counter()}, "\n" for 1..3;
</code>
<p>And here's an example of generating closures which return refs to their data so that they can be sort of be used as lvalues...</p>
<code>
# Use a sub to generate closures to be used as settable counters.
sub new_counter {
my $c = 0;
sub { $c++; \$c }
}
my $c1 = new_counter;
print '$c1: ' . ${$c1->()}, "\n" for 1..3;
${$c1->()} = 0;
print '$c1: ' . ${$c1->()}, "\n" for 1..3;
${$c1->()} = 99;
print '$c1: ' . ${$c1->()}, "\n" for 1..3;
# Slightly less unwieldy syntax...
my $c2 = new_counter;
print '$c2: ' . ${&$c2}, "\n" for 1..3;
${&$c2} = 0;
print '$c2: ' . ${&$c2}, "\n" for 1..3;
${&$c2} = 99;
print '$c2: ' . ${&$c2}, "\n" for 1..3;
</code>
<p>Make the closure an lvalue anonymous sub and return the scalar rather than a reference to it and you can manufacture settable counters that have an even nicer syntax...</p>
<code>
sub new_lvalue_counter {
my $c = 0;
return sub : lvalue { $c++; $c }
}
my $c3 = new_lvalue_counter;
print &$c3, "\n" for 1..3;
&$c3 = 10;
print &$c3, "\n" for 1..3;
</code>
<p>So. That's not as neat as a straight lvalue sub, but it gives you as many as you want.... Here's another way to get more than one (with all of the neatness of using a single lvalue sub) but with some additional maintenance problems:</p>
<code>
{
my @c;
sub counter : lvalue { my $i = shift; $c[$i]++; $c[$i] }
}
print counter(0), "\n" for 1..3;
counter(0) = 10;
print counter(1), "\n" for 1..3;
counter(1) = 100;
print counter(0), "\n";
print counter(1), "\n";
</code>
<hr>
<p><strong>The code:</strong></p>
<code>
#!/usr/bin/perl -wl
use strict;
my @good = qw( 0e0 0 +0 -0 1. 0.14 .14 1.24e5 24e5 -24e-5);
my @bad = ('', qw( 2.3. 2.3.4 1..2 .1.1 a.1 a1.1 .1a 1.a 1.1a 1a.1 1.a1));
my $pattern = qr!
[+-]?
(?: \d*? )?
(?: (?<=\d)\.? | \.?(?=\d) )
(?: \d*?)?
(?: \d[Ee] (?: [+-]?\d+ ) )?
!ox;
print 'GOOD Tests';
print /$pattern/ ? ' ': 'no ', "match: '$_'" for @good;
print 'BAD Tests';
print /$pattern/ ? ' ': 'no ', "match: '$_'" for @bad;
</code>
<p><strong>And the output:</strong></p>
<code>
GOOD Tests
match: '0e0'
match: '0'
match: '+0'
match: '-0'
match: '1.'
match: '0.14'
match: '.14'
match: '1.24e5'
match: '24e5'
match: '-24e-5'
BAD Tests
no match: ''
match: '2.3.'
match: '2.3.4'
match: '1..2'
match: '.1.1'
match: 'a.1'
match: 'a1.1'
match: '.1a'
match: '1.a'
match: '1.1a'
match: '1a.1'
match: '1.a1'
</code>
<hr>
[http://tinymicros.com/pm/index.php?goto=MainPage|Monk Statistics]
<br /><a HREF="/index.pl?node_id=26248">RE: RE: RE: Proposed XP System Changes</a>
<br /><a HREF="/index.pl?node_id=3989">Super Search</a>
<br /><a HREF="/index.pl?node_id=18207">Thoughts on voting and reputations</a>
<br /><a HREF="/index.pl?node_id=167147">Front Page with Negative Rep..</a>
<hr>
<code>
<S_Shrum> our? never seen that one...Kewl...I'll research and implement if
that does the trick...thanks
<submersible_toaster> think of it as our package var , and my lexical var
<submersible_toaster> anyone fighting the good fight with Mail::IMAPClient
?
<PodMaster> [Tutorials]
* S_Shrum wonders why anyone would buy a submersible toaster? Hmmmm.....
* kodo thinks about if he ever used our but can't remember a single case
<submersible_toaster> [PodMaster] was that directed at me, ?
<i>Tutorials</i>
<S_Shrum> bo yea! That works!
<S_Shrum> makes sense...my / our...I use MY all the time...shoulda just
guessed
<PodMaster> no ~ s_shrum
<3dan> [id://105446] is a good place for further reading
<sauoq> [submersible_toaster] Better to think of it as "our lexically
scoped global variable"
<submersible_toaster> but when does it go out of scope ?
<graq> Does anyone know any nice examples of modules that use DBI to setup
database modules for use in CGI scripts?
<sauoq> Well, outside of use strict vars, there is really no reason for
it... it doesn't exactly go out of scope... It just requires a
package name when it isn't in the scope of the our decl.
<sauoq> [submersible_toaster]: <code>perl -Mstrict -wle '{our $foo=1} prin
t
$foo'</code>
<sauoq> Then try the same thing, but <code>print $main::foo</code>
<sauoq> And if you are starting to wonder what "our" is good for... read
[Why is 'our' good?] ... you're in good company. :-)
<submersible_toaster> ahHAH!
<submersible_toaster> ++[sauoq] thankyou for clearing that up.
<submersible_toaster> What is our good for. I could make a recommendation
for Mail::IMAPClient but I am yet to determine
exactly WTF is going on in there.
<merlyn> "our" is a lexical declaration for package variables
<merlyn> I talk about that in my alpaca book
<theorbtwo> [merlyn], do you come up with any place where our is better
then use vars, other then that the syntax is closer to my?
<sauoq> all paco book?
<merlyn> better in that it can initialize, yes.
<sauoq> err [paco]?
* theorbtwo notes that alpaca yarn is sooo sooooft.
* theorbtwo starts to read the sample chapter, and chokes when the very
first paragraph implies that a reference isn't a scalar pretty
firmly.
* 3dan tries to remove the alpaca hairball from [theorbtwo]'s throat
<merlyn> where's that?
<theorbtwo> Uh, 3ch, in the two introductory paragraphs. (I'd quote, but
I'd just be quoting the whole para anyway.)
<Alexander> i cannot remember - can i print an entire array to a file with
just <code>print FILE @array;</code> --?
<sauoq> Well, you say that it isn't a job for one of those three... it's a
job for a reference. (or similar.) It's obvious to me that you just
dumbed it down a bit. Pedantry isn't always good for learning.
<castaway> yes you can
<Alexander> :-)
<kodo> Alexander: yes but why don't you try it out yourself?
<Arguile> "A reference fits wherever a scalar fits. It can go..." Pg.7 P3
<Alexander> because this is the last thing i need add to the script before
it is complete and i can goto bed
<merlyn> right. I think I go to great pains to be the opposite of what
[theorbtwo] is noting
<Arguile> I'd say making that distinction is probably good for a learning
book.
* theorbtwo shrugs.
<merlyn> A reference is not a scalar, but merely fits wherever a scalar
fits.
<merlyn> well, almost everywhere. it can't be the key of a hash
<theorbtwo> I'd instead say that a reference is a special type of scalar.
<merlyn> [theorbtwo] - what precisely is your problem?
<merlyn> No, it's not a special type of scalar.
<sauoq> Well, I do see how it could read that way... Saying a reference can
go wherever a scalar goes falls just a tad short of saying "because
a reference is in fact a scalar." But I'm sure you say that
somewhere later... You do, right?
<merlyn> it's not quite a scalar. it's neither a string nor a number nor
undef.
<castaway> (neither can some scalars .9
<merlyn> a reference is <i>not</i> a scalar. every.
<merlyn> errr "ever"
<merlyn> a scalar can be used as a hash key, for example.
<merlyn> equating references with scalars is more damaging than useful
<theorbtwo> No, a string can be used as a hash key. References can't,
because while they are scalars, they aren't strings.
<castaway> with binary data?
<merlyn> but "a reference fits nearly everywhere a scalar fits" gives a
useful storage model
<merlyn> I think you have been misled, [theorbtwo]
<theorbtwo> (Trying to use undef as a hash key results in actualy using the
empty string, it appears.)
<merlyn> i don't know anyone on P5P that would say "a reference <i>is</i> a
scalar"
<sauoq> "A scalar may contain one single value in any of three different
flavors: a number, a string, or a reference."
<merlyn> undef as a hash key uses "" instead, yes.
<sauoq> Quoting from [perldoc://perldata]...
* castaway quotes the Camel on scalars: A scalar always contains a single
value. This may be a number, string, or a reference to another
piece of data.
<theorbtwo> I simply state the rule as "a hash key is a string, not a
scalar", which rules out refs and undefs nicely, and leaves a
clean mental model.
* castaway grins at [sauoq]
<merlyn> I'm trying to capture the semantics, but perhaps not using the
terminology that casual usage would lead you to, perhaps.
* sauoq notes that's because hash keys are stringified... that happens with
references too.
<merlyn> I don't necessarily view the Camel as the final definition of
terminology. I use usage on P5P instead.
<sauoq> And you can use them as hash keys... you just can't use hash keys
as references.
<theorbtwo> Oh. I use usage here, more or less, but mostly what makes
sense to me.
<merlyn> in any event, I'm presenting a model for learning. that should
not get in your way... just move along...
<theorbtwo> And what produces expectation most in line with what
<code>perl</code> does.
<sauoq> Why? Because hash keys always hold "strings." Not numbers, not
scalars, not references... strings.
* theorbtwo shrugs -- no matter how good the Alpaca was, I wouldn't buy it
-- it doesn't attempt to teach material not in Camel, which I
have, and like.
<merlyn> [theorbtwo] - fine, that's not a tutorial book for you. and I bet
you didn't use the llama either. but both of them are useful for
people that are not as smart as you
<sauoq> I might have bought it several years ago had it been out then... I
think I've probably mastered the material pretty well by now
though. :-)
<Arguile> I don't equate Alpca (from what I've seen of it) with Camel at
all. Camel is a reference + some explanation. Alpaca == tutorial
(correct me if I'm wrong [merlyn]).
<merlyn> many thousands - no millions, of people have found the llama
useful. I suspect most of them will find the alpaca useful too.
<merlyn> yes, the camel is a reference book. the llama + alpaca = tutorial
books
<theorbtwo> Sorry, [merlyn]. I don't mean to diss your teaching style;
it's just different then mine.
* sauoq has the pink llama on his shelf... It was the first book I bought
on perl. And thank you [merlyn] for a gentle introduction... (and
you're welcome... because I did -purchase- the book. ;-)
<merlyn> there's nothing in the llama and alpaca that isn't covered in the
camel - but just in a different way.
<sauoq> I have the pink camel on my shelf too. I got that about a week
later.
<merlyn> and nearly everyone who has learned Perl seems to have learned it
from the llama. that's cool froeme.
<theorbtwo> Noddage, [merlyn]. I wouldn't say that the camel isn't a
tutorial, just not a tutorial for beginning programmers.
<sauoq> It taught me all I wanted to know about perl4... so thanks for that
too, [merlyn]... and you're welcome again.
<Arguile> Pink Camel?
<merlyn> so [theorbtwo] - I have no problem with you learning from
reference books. just realize that others need more handholding,
and there's nothing wrong with that.
<theorbtwo> [arguile], the first editions had pink, rather the cyan,
covers.
<merlyn> no, there's really nothing in the Camel that is a "tutorial" in
the traditional sense. it's merely the manpages republished.
more reference than anythign else.
<castaway> (Camel++)
<merlyn> but for those who want a tutorial, llama + alpaca is definitely
the track to process.
<theorbtwo> [merlyn], I understand that -- it's just that I prefer to teach
things such that I refine, rather then break, my students
mental models later.
<theorbtwo> Then again, I don't teach much, and never in large groups.
<merlyn> [theorbtwo] - someday, you'll notice what I did as a blessing, not
a curse. :)
<sauoq> So... then I got the second edition camel... and that was my bible
while learning about perl's OO brew and all sorts of nifty things
about perl5... so thank you one last time [merlyn]. (And you're
welcome again.)
<merlyn> the way to teach "baby perl" is to teach a model that actually has
a few holes. that's life.
<merlyn> thanks saugo
<theorbtwo> Oh, I'm not saying that your books are bad. They're rather
good. I just think that they could be better.
<theorbtwo> There are very few things I read and say "that couldn't have
been better".
<merlyn> I'd challenge you to teach the same level of material in the same
number of pages. seriously. I've spent a lifetime learnign how
to teach this stuff.
<Arguile> Hehe. <code>curse( $foo ); # P5 compatible object model (in
P6)</code>
<merlyn> so I'll kindly suggest that you refrain from such crap unless
you're willing to put yoru money where your mouth is.
<theorbtwo> LOL, [Arguile].
<theorbtwo> Hm. Never considered technical writing and teaching as a
carreer. And I wasn't calling your work crap by any means.
<merlyn> And I dont' see O'Reilly clamoring to get you to write their next
book.
<merlyn> No, I'm calling your claim crap. I think you have no clue here.
<merlyn> And I'll show you my reviews and royalty checks to prove it.
<merlyn> I have credentials. Critical Acclaim. Street Cred. You are just
a guy who seems to always be over your head here on perlmonks.
You have no weight here.
<theorbtwo> [merlyn], I have no doubt that your books are popular, that
many people like them, and that you're a very good teacher.
<merlyn> so move along, please. your comments are baseless.
* sauoq thinks he could do a good job of writing a book. How do you go
about doing it and making a living at the same time?
* castaway giggles
<merlyn> I will certainly listen to any valid criticism. Please forward
that to merlyn@stonehenge.com - I'm curious.
<theorbtwo> In fact, I consider the book of yours that I own in hardcopy to
be probably the best-written non-fiction book I own.
<merlyn> book writing is NEVER about making a living
<sauoq> That's what I'm missing... how do I approach a publisher and get
them to pay my rent and bills for the time it takes me to write a
book. I'd happily quit my job and do that...
<merlyn> it's only about credentials or collateral. Book writing is never
a living
<merlyn> [sauog] - if you figure that out, lemme know. :)
<theorbtwo> [sauoq], first you give them a finished book. Then, if it's
really really good, you might have a prayer, possibly, of that
happening the next time.
* castaway thinks several fiction authors would argue about that..
<merlyn> right.. SF can be a living. But not techwriting. too small an
audience.
<theorbtwo> [castaway], every time I've ever heard a writer write about
writing, they've said that it's a horrible way to make a
living.
<merlyn> I'm an <u>incredibly successful</u> techwriter.... and yet the
best month I've had in royalties paid about $10K.
* sauoq sighs.
<merlyn> that may seem huge, but there's been far too many $1K months as
well.
<castaway> hmm.. havent looked hard enough then.. I see several that enjoy
it.. (Terry Pratchett for example..)
<merlyn> so, back to the issue. [theorbtwo] - if you have legitimate
complaints, please email me. Lemme brew on it. But I bet you
won't have anything that would have changed the way I did Llama or
Alpaca.
<theorbtwo> BTW, [merlyn], ever consider putting out a book of collected
articles? (Or do you not have rights to do such a thing?)
<merlyn> and in fact, I'd bet you are telling me to change things in a way
that I know for sure didn't work in the past.
<merlyn> [theorbtwo] - that's in progress. expect such in a year or so.
<theorbtwo> Cool. I'll quite likely buy such a beast.
<castaway> [sauoq] try this:
[http://www.megafortress.com/essay2.htm|breaking in is hard to
do]
<merlyn> that's what I and the publisher are hopping
<merlyn> (hoping)
* kodo likes effective perl programming a lot...
<merlyn> we're taking my 166 columns, throwing out the redundant ones,
organizing them into topics, then creating a few paragraphs to
"update" anything that needs such.
<merlyn> EPP for Stonehenge is being replaced by Alpaca
<sauoq> fwiw, I think you did the right thing in drawing a distinction
between references and scalars. I don't think I agree that doing so
is more pedantic... but less so. But, I'll reiterate, I think less
pedantic is probably good for a learning book.
<merlyn> all I can say is whatever I'm doing in alpaca is nearly essential
for learning, even if it breaks models needed later.
<merlyn> that's the strategy I'm always willing to take in a tutorial book
* theorbtwo shrugs.</i> [merlyn] is right; he is vastly more qualified
then I am to be making assertations like this.
<merlyn> I say it on page one of my course materials "we lie from time to
time"
<theorbtwo> There's been two kinds of debates/arguments I've had with you,
and this one is the "it's just style" kind.
<merlyn> it's because I have to give scaffolding. sometimes, the
scaffolding is not the final materials. that's life.
<merlyn> yeah, an art call, based on experience.
<theorbtwo> (I actualy had substance the other day, on for/foreach
terminology, was actualy grounded in a good point, which I
should write coherently at some point. (That being that
terminology should be easy to use correctly.))
<merlyn> don't knock my art until you have faced thousands of students.
<merlyn> until then, you haven't "earned your licks" enough for me to pay
attention. :)
<Alexander> /me.oO(if i were not so overtired, i might get up and dance
having finshed the deadline coding for the site.)
<sauoq> Right. And understandable.
<merlyn> in an ideal world, perhaps the teaching would be different. I
live in my world, not that ideal world.
<theorbtwo> The scary part is, you meant thousands of students in a large
ampitheter, didn't you?
<merlyn> I mean everythign from 2 people to 200 people, yes.
<theorbtwo> I don't teach large groups, ever. In fact, I don't teach
professionaly in any matter.
<merlyn> bing! so your comments about "how to teach" are all crap. OK. :)
* sauoq considers it for a moment... online, I've had thousands of
students... only dozens in real life... but I've taught a lot on
IRC... nothing structured of course... hrm... maybe I should go
into teaching. Got an opening on your team [merlyn]?
<merlyn> allow me to introduce myself as "Randal the professional teacher,
writer, and tutorial author" then.
<Alexander> g'nite everyone (merlyn and orb, dont hurt each other... much)
;-P
<theorbtwo> OTOH, I don't ever recall somebody complaignign about my
teaching style... including teachers I constantly corrected to
the point a good argument can be made that I was teaching.
<theorbtwo> [alexander], goodnight.
<merlyn> [saouq] - I hire only people who are famous. (1) get famous. (2)
I'll notice you.
* theorbtwo wonders momentarly if [merlyn] has ever hired somebody other
then [merlyn].
<castaway> night alexander
<merlyn> [http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=8217/ur0306h/]
<theorbtwo> I respect Randal the professional teacher, writer, and tutorial
author. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother trying to disagree with
him.
<merlyn> I've had a half dozen instructors working for me, yes.
<theorbtwo> wow.
<theorbtwo> I always got the impression you were a one-man show.
<merlyn> Joseph Hall, Tom Phoenix, Chip Salzenberg, <tt>brian d foy</tt>,
Tad Maclellan
<merlyn> you certainly don't visit my website ever then.
<merlyn> I also had a few others who tried but washed out during the
prelims
<sauoq> Tad McClellan is famous?
<theorbtwo> I've been there a few times, actualy, but normaly just to read
your articles, which are quite fun, even when I've been over
the same ground myself.
<Corion> [merlyn]: Does brian d foy insist on monospace for his name?
<merlyn> he was answering nearly every other question in
comp.lang.perl.misc when I approached him
<sauoq> But whatever... if I get famous [merlyn] it'll be too late. You
will have missed your chance. Poof. Gone.
<merlyn> [http://www.panix.com/~comdog/style.html]
<Corion> .oO(Getting famous in the Perl community is no problem - getting
famous and still being liked in the Perl community is harder :-))
<merlyn> famous != marketable. I turn famous people into marketing items.
<merlyn> if you don't know the difference, you'll never make money. :)
* theorbtwo wonders if it'd be <tt>d foy</tt>, <tt>brian</tt>.
<merlyn> Stonehenge is a marketing machine. we work hard to brand the
brand, and have people call us first.
<sauoq> That's not what I need... I need the avenue to get famous. Timing
and all, ya know? I missed the perl boat by a couple years.... that
and I took employment in the private sector where I needed to be
careful about my open source involvement at times.-sigh-
<merlyn> feel free to try to do the marketing on your own. you'll come up
short. I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars marketing the
Stonehenge brand.
<merlyn> ask Allison Randal about how long it takes to be famous.
<theorbtwo> And you do a good job, [merlyn]. If I needed a perl class
taught, I'd email you first... and then have no idea where else
to look.
<merlyn> I gave her the same challenge I just gave you. WIthin six months,
she pushed herself into the Perl6 committee. And now has a book
already available at OSCON.
<merlyn> she had asked to work with me. I told her what I just told you.
<merlyn> she is clearly famous now. I'd hire her in a second.
<merlyn> so don't tell me that you can't be famous within a year or so.
It's been done!
<castaway> (who's Allison Randal ?)
<merlyn> it's about finding a need within the Perl community, and filling
it excellently. then your name gets out there. and that makes you
marketable for Stonehenge.
<sauoq> Wait... "You'll come up short?" Heh. That's cute. Well... I sure am
lucky that my future doesn't rely on <em>your</em> faith, aren't I?
<merlyn> [castaway] - you've not been following perl6 at all, apparently.
:)
<castaway> Nope, cant say I have
* kodo also got no clue about perl6 yet...
* theorbtwo wonders momentarly if [tye] or [vroom] is really famous in the
community-at-large, or just here.
<merlyn> [vroom] gets street cred for perlmonks, but [tye] hasn't outted
himself enough to do so.
<theorbtwo> perl6 is fun stuff... half of the time I read somthing of
[thedamian]'s, I just go "huh?"... but the "whoh"s are intense.
<sauoq> Thanks for the link [castaway].
<castaway> but then, I'd been using perl for 2 years, and hadnt heard of
you til I came here, either
* theorbtwo nods.
<merlyn> in terms of perl6 design, it's Larry, Damian, and Allison. They
are The Holy Three.
<merlyn> and that's due in part to my urging her to be a famous person.
* djantzen has set his sights on infamy instead.
* merlyn sets his sights on blasphemy
<castaway> welcome, [sauoq] (some of his others are also not bad.. and the
books anyway ,)
<theorbtwo> Odd, it's always looked from here like Allison is one of the
more minor people -- a lot of Larry, Damian, and Dan (though he
has a slightly different sphere). I suspect Allison just gets
less credit and/or puts out less public emails.
<theorbtwo> [castaway], but this site was your first exposure to The
Community, wasn't it?
<sauoq> Well... there it goes.... you had a chance there. Momentarily. Now,
if I ever talk to you about working for you again... it'll be you
asking me and me saying "no thanks." Then I'll wink and whisper,
"by the way, I'm bones."
<merlyn> never heard of bones.
<merlyn> if you had street cred, I'd know you.
* castaway nods [theorbtwo]
<theorbtwo> [sauoq], can I suggest that picking one name might be a good
thing in terms of famousness?
<theorbtwo> OTOH, if I winked at [merlyn], and whispered "by the way, I'm
theorbtwo", I'd probably get slugged... ;)
<sauoq> rollin' bones, jay bones.... talk about street cred... you have
<em>no idea.</em> :-)
* djantzen can hear [sauoq]'s sigh all the way over here.
<merlyn> listen, if you wanna be a fuckhead, and be pseudonymous when you
don't need to be, go ahead.
<theorbtwo> (Yes, I have read your name space, [sauoq], I do know that
[sauoq] is a 180deg rotation of bones -- but people who know
who sauoq is won't realize they know bones, and vice-versa.)
<sauoq> [theorbtwo] Nah... ubergeeks always have at least 3 names...
they're kinda like cats. Ever read T.S.?
<theorbtwo> Works well enough for [chromatic].
<merlyn> you earn no respect with me hiding behind a pretend name. I am
very clearly who I am, and it works for me.
<sauoq> Now I'm a fuckhead?
<merlyn> and [chromatic] is clearly chromatic everywhere. not his real
name anywhere.
<theorbtwo> [sauoq], can't say I have. (And James Mastros, theorb, and
theorbtwo, pleased to meet you, [sauoq], bones, and
whateveryourrealnamehappenstobe.)
* kodo lols
<castaway> (3 names? 1 name + 1 nick is enough for me..)
<theorbtwo> Uh... exactly the reason for my advice [merlyn]. You're
clearly Randal Schwartz, wherever you go, even here, where it
says [merlyn]. Similarly, chromatic is always chromatic, even
more so.
<merlyn> so [sauoq] - I have no respect for you, because you are pretending
to be someone whom you arent'.
<merlyn> even if you are someone famous, you're being a fuckhead.
* sauoq was being obtuse, [castaway]... but it's a good rule of thumb just
the same.
<theorbtwo> Makes little difference if the name you use was given to you by
your parents. Indeed, people will remember <tt>chromatic<tt>
or <tt>brian d foy</tt> on the cover of a book.
<merlyn> I don't appreciate people who lie to me.
<theorbtwo> </tt></tt> D'oh! Easy to miss a slash.
<merlyn> </tt>
<sauoq> Well, I often think the same of you. You're entitled, of course.
<theorbtwo> Interesting, [merlyn] -- exactly my earlier point -- I don't
like tutorials that lie to me.
<Corion> ... <code>code be gone</code>
* sauoq never lied once.
<merlyn> All tutorials lie. Get over it.
<sauoq> To you that is... I'm not a saint.
<merlyn> if they didn't lie, they'd be reference books. :)
* kodo lols a bit more
<theorbtwo> I am over it, [merlyn].
<sauoq> I do think its funny that you just have no idea whether I'm famous
or not... I can see the gears churning... "well, he's not a
newbie... do I know this guy? Have I met him?"
<merlyn> well, if you're sherm pendley, you certainly pick a weird way to
presence yourself in the world.
<merlyn> and if that's also an alias, I'm even more disgusted with you. :)
<sauoq> You just need to get over yourself. Street cred... pshaw. "famous"
pbbbt.
<theorbtwo> [merlyn], you're both famous and rather respected. If I had to
choose one, I'd rather be respected.
<merlyn> you've certainly earned a few points in the "ASSHOLE" category.
<sauoq> What kind of name is "sherm pendley"?
* theorbtwo sighs, and would also rather have a full nights sleep, but has
to get up in a maximum of 4.5 hours... goodnight, all.
<merlyn> that's "camelbones" - since you also call yourself "bones", I
suspect a link.
<sauoq> Cool. I thought we playing HORSE... but I guess I did sink a couple
three pointers.
<merlyn> but you know, I just plain don't care. I'm not into puzzles. If
you'd rather be hidden behind a puzzle, you're a fucking nobody.
go away.
* castaway gives [theorbtwo] a birthday kiss and sends him to bed..
* merlyn heads off to bed
<theorbtwo> Goodnight, [merlyn].
<sauoq> Never heard of "camelbones". I used to smoke camels... years ago.
The filtered ones... the unfiltered made even me hack...
<castaway> night merlyn..
* djantzen wonders how one's street cred is affected by successfully
goading someone of [merlyn]'s stature into flinging slurs...
<theorbtwo> camels, or kamels, [sauoq]?
<kodo> everyone's a nobody finally. doesn't mean anything to be famous or
not.
* sauoq smiles.
<sauoq> camels.
* castaway grins to herself.
* theorbtwo suspects [merlyn] would be a little more respected and a little
less famous if he were to swear less when confronted with
critisisim...and wonders which he'd prefer.
<sauoq> And I kept it in bounds the whole time too, [djantzen]...
wonderous, huh?
<robobunny> i certainly hope watching this discussion was not someone's
first exposure to perlmonks
<theorbtwo> [robobunny], my first exposure to PM was the stink around
[merlyn]'s name being taken off of Camel3.
* Corion has this surefire plan to get famous and disrespected in the core
Perl community, while at the same time earning some money ... But
he is too chicken ...
<sauoq> The way I hear it, he didn't even contribute that much to the 2nd
ed.
<kodo> I really have lots of respect from merlyn when it comes to coding
and his books. But tbh until I saw him talking here and on some
nodes I thought he'd be a much more gentle person...with more wisdom
not caring about beeing "famous" or not...
<robobunny> in a way, talking smack about your perl street cred is pretty
hilarious if you think about it
<true> anybody know how to grant a user an email address while not allowing
ftp on linux?
* djantzen practices his not famous signature.
<merlyn> [sauoq] - the only people who say that are the people who weren't
there.
<theorbtwo> Anyway, goodnight, really.
<merlyn> and now I suspect you may actually be Tom Christiansen. How
interesting.
<merlyn> that would nearly explain your previous behavior here.
<castaway> true, theres an /etc/ftpusers for those allowed to do ftp..
<kodo> true: don't understand your question...why shouldn't that work?
* sauoq would rather be a plain old guy... working a plain old job...
raising his beautiful little daughter... than a famous geek with
street cred and huge head.
<robobunny> ftp servers typically don't allow access if your shell is not
listed in /etc/shells
<merlyn> [kodo] - I'm responsible for everythign I say, but I'd appreciate
concrete feedback instead of abstract handwaving, thank you.
<sauoq> I thought you'd still be listening.
<robobunny> /etc/ftpusers is actually people who are not allow to use ftp
<merlyn> Whoa. So it's really Gnat. How cool.
<kodo> merlyn: sure, that's fine. I respect your point of views just think
you should be a bit more open and don't take things that serious.
:-)
<merlyn> Again, putting on a clown face and walking in to here doesn't
impress me.
<castaway> oops.. well, right thought .. thanks robobunny
<merlyn> There are very few things that I take seriously. Perhaps you
don't agree, but allow me that indulgeence.
* sauoq wonders how many other people he will guess that I am...
<merlyn> spreading crap amongst the community like bad security advice or
bad code, I take seriouslyl.
<theorbtwo> [merlyn], I just /msg'd a reminder to myself to write a
meditation on terminology, I welcome your thoughts on it when I
finish it (which, at the rate I'm going on my mental todo will
be a while.)
<true> so i add users to this file. and restart??
<sauoq> You were right the first time, dude... I'm "a nobody"... what are
you worried about? What are all these shadows jumping up and
attacking you?
* merlyn would like to wring [sauoq]'s neck, and now realizes this is
exactly the behavior that [sauoq] is trying to elicit. How droll.
<robobunny> you shouldn't have to restart the ftp daemon
<merlyn> OK, nothing more from me regarding the troll. /me moves on
<sauoq> I'm not trying to elicit any behavior, [merlyn].
<sauoq> But, so nice of you to start spelling the name right.
<theorbtwo> OK, really, really, really time for bed.
<sauoq> And, calling me a troll here is sort of joke. I think there's
enough evidence that I come to help out.
<kodo> now fucking leave orb or I'll tell castaway to bring you to bed :-)
<true> thanks monks, works great. my domain control panel thanks you.
* castaway would love to ..
<theorbtwo> Yes, [kodo|sir]! Not that she hasn't been trying, sir!
* castaway .oO( gone .. )
<djantzen> [sauoq] is not and never has been a troll [merlyn].
</code>
Thanks, [djantzen]. :-)
<code>
...
* Corion is sufficiently convinved that [sauoq] is not gnat...
...
* virtualsue never understood why merlyn thought sauoq was gnat to begin
with
* castaway doesnt understand merlyn, period.
<kodo> as i said I respect him but also don't understand why he is so
"serious" in a weird way sometimes
* kodo goes out for a walk to relax a bit
<sauoq> [Corion] Sshh... don't tell anyone else I'm not gnat... I wouldn't
want that to get around. ;-)
* sauoq chuckles.
</code>
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