note rir [M.att], the key point of my reply was what you replied with: Alluding to an ulterior motive to mislead or lie to people is uncalled for. That is what you did, or you were more direct. I don't and didn't subscribe any ulterior motives to you. I did not mean to allude to such either, I only meant what I said I ... found that ... search ... different than you implied, I distrust your whole post. No allusion to motives intended: I find an error and so I doubt the accuracy of the rest of your post. That you feel so attacked demonstrates my point. You smeared a bunch of people who, just like you, went to some effort to share their knowledge. You impugned their competency, motives and honesty. When I only ask if you are doing the same you are offended. My lame does not equate to your utterly horrible and I do not agree that my examples support your point. I am not offended that someone codes to a standard I dislike: <code>&routine</code> is perfectly good perl. (Most Monks realize that <code>&name</code> cannot be routinely applied to builtins. The student who learns that convention early on also learns early to distinguish builtins from package subs.) I found your first post to be entertaining, you succeeded in that. I generally agree with your post. Beginners have misconceptions1 because they are beginners. What is good teaching material is difficult to determine without access to the student. Even the student who likes and wants to learn will coast, or stop learning, at some point. The student who learns just to accomplish some specific aim will do this at the earliest possible time. This suspension of learning can leave gaping holes for a long time. The sites I called lame may very well serve someone who just wants to achieve some aim. That they don't want to learn Perl, but just want to do XXX, does not make them less worthy of being taught. You, and I, will want to teach them Perl--someone else may be able to teach just what they want to know. The people who were so served, if any, will not be likely to come to your attention, they moved on. Be well, rir 1 -- there are also voids of conception ~ 513422 517490