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Re^4: The Most Essential Perl Development Tools Today

by topher (Scribe)
on Jan 08, 2013 at 19:29 UTC ( #1012320=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re^3: The Most Essential Perl Development Tools Today
in thread The Most Essential Perl Development Tools Today


Here's why: You do not put forward any arguments for either the authority or efficacy of the result of compliance with P::C. Nor do you state an single example or any reasoning for your conclusion that P::C improves beginners code.

Wow. You disagree with me, so you downvote me. Thank you for ensuring that I won't get into any future discussions with you.

However, that isn't quite correct. I specifically said that since we started using Perl::Critic with some of the inexperienced guys I work with, their code quality has improved, and the number of mistakes they have made has decreased. That specific experience is why I believe it helps improves beginners code: I have personally seen it happen.

You simply state: "I like; I use it; therefore it must be good."

No, I didn't. I'll thank you for not putting words in my mouth. In fact, I'll help you by directly stating what I mean, in my own words: "I like it. I have personally benefited from it, both through direct use, and from its use by coworkers. For my purposes, it is a good and useful tool."

Pick (almost) any single one of P::C critiques and open up the discussion here to all comers comments; and I'll bet you'll never reach a consensus; without you give a specific example of the critiqued construct or idiom in situ. And even if you get a consensus for that specific usage, it will be only for that specific usage; and probably a contrived one at that.

You are correct in that you will probably never get 100% agreement on, well, pretty much anything related to Perl. Especially when it comes to things like best practices. Hell, getting 100% agreement is almost a violation of Perl's TIMTOWTDI culture. But, that doesn't mean that I don't have personal opinions on best practices. And it doesn't mean that a significant number of people in the community don't have opinions on best practices. And it doesn't mean that my coworkers don't have opinions on best practices.

Can Perl::Critical assist us, at least to some degree, with catching violations of those best practices? Yes. Is Perl::Critic perfect? Absolutely not. Is it useful? To me, absolutely. Do I think it's better to have new users run it, research what it spits out, and learn from it, rather than blindly continue making potential mistakes? Yes.

I think this comes down to a fundamental difference in viewpoint on learning. You seem to imply that Perl::Critic is always bad, and that the only valid way to learn best practices is through code reviews with a presumably experienced Perl coder. I believe that a code review with an experienced Perler is absolutely better than Perl::Critic, but I also believe Perl::Critic is better than nothing (and many people don't have a Perl guru at their beck and call). Finally, I also believe that Perl::Critic use, especially when supervised by an experienced Perl coder, can be a very beneficial tool for learning.

I find it to be (one of many) useful tools. You obviously hate it. Nothing in this discussion is going to change either of our opinions, and I'm not interested in arguing with someone who downvotes first, and argues later. I'm out.

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Re^5: The Most Essential Perl Development Tools Today
by BrowserUk (Pope) on Jan 08, 2013 at 20:02 UTC
    Wow. You disagree with me, so you downvote me.

    No. As stated, I downvoted you because you you gave no supporting argument for your opinion. Just a bland statement of "You're wrong!"

    You obviously hate it.

    No. Again, as stated, I don't "hate" a piece of software.

    Rather, on the basis of sounds reasoning I've expressed at length in this thread, I believe it is a tool that gets widely misused and overused.

    I'm not interested in arguing with someone who downvotes first, and argues later.

    And I can't be bothered further with people who join a thread late; cannot be arsed to read the rest of the thread before knee-jerking thir opinon as if it were fact.

    So we're done.

    With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
    Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
    "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
    In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

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