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Re^3: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

by tinita (Parson)
on Apr 04, 2013 at 15:20 UTC ( #1027000=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^2: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
in thread How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

it's one of those seemingly harmless jokes we're confronted with regularly. I see a big difference to the other options. I don't have any problem with the "social skills" option.
and it goes one level further - it's not "only" discriminating women, but it's discriminating those who complain about discrimination by pretending that all feminists are aggressive. especially after the incident where a woman heard a bad joke in a conference audience and put a photo of the guys on twitter (which I think was a really bad idea).

just like I don't generalize men all being sexist, I don't want feminists being generalized as aggressive.

like it was said in a similar discussion months ago, it's also about context. in a group of friends this might be funny because you know how it was meant.


Comment on Re^3: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
Re^4: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 04, 2013 at 21:57 UTC
    I just popped up to say "Hello!"
    I'll soon return back down below
    I came to further my agenda
    That single issue you'll remember
    My raison d'etre for contributions
    No questions to ask nor proffered solutions
    No molehills flattened just mountains raised
    My PC issue for which I must be praised
    My single issue to disturb the peace
    The issue that gives my life its lease
    And now I've done my duty clear
    That's it. I'm out of here
      Huh. Emotional invalidation. It's pretty sad that you think I base what I think about myself on your opinion. Yes, it does make me a little angry - being spat on does that - but I'm more filled with pity at your inability to deal with someone being different from you. Work on those empathy skills. You don't seem to have any.
Re^4: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by shetech (Initiate) on Apr 06, 2013 at 20:28 UTC
    Just so. And this is one of the primary reasons why I don't hang out in communities like this very much, and is the reason why I don't attend developer conferences. Every step I take in that world is a reminder of why I'm not welcome.
      that's a pity. :-/
      I have to say that my personal experience at YAPCs and perl workshops is very good; I even was member of the orga team for the first time recently. We added a short policy against discrimination and harassment to our call for participation. I would like to encourage you to participate in conferences, and in case of an issue, talk to the orga team or the person in question; maybe that's the best way to make the right people aware of the problem. =)

      Every step I take in that world is a reminder of why I'm not welcome.

      Try skipping :)

      Please don't take this community as an example. There seem to be some people who make bad jokes (possibly unintended), and unfortunately a number of machos who take part in such discussions and use all means to discredit anybody who is complaining. This is easy because it's anonmyous.
      I guess at conferences this is better. If those people are attending (what I doubt), then at least they usually don't dare to say aloud what they've written here.
        Yes, and no matter how good at Perl they might be, we don't need people who can't interact with anyone who isn't just like them. We especially don't need them to loudly paint Perlmonks and by association the Perl community as just like them.

        I encourage you to post with a nym, even if it's an alias. The more real people who say,"this? This doesn't fly for Perl people," the better.

      Being oversensitive surely feels that way. I'll tell you a secret, we all feel not welcome at times. Some of us did not find an organization to amplify and return the feeling yet though.

      Jenda
      Enoch was right!
      Enjoy the last years of Rome.

        Over sensitive. Sure. You've just been told that something that is an immutable part of who you are: female, minority, foreign - is inherently less. No, that isn't painful at all.

        It's the death of a thousand paper cuts.

Reaped: Re^4: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by NodeReaper (Curate) on Apr 07, 2013 at 09:05 UTC
      you sound a bit... aggressive. everything ok?
      If you wanna be part of the boy's club
      No, I don't want to be part of a boy's club. I want to be and I am part of the perl community, you anonymous wimp ;-)

        You read aggression into anything you can't respond to, but just your saying it does not make it so. And each time you play to your agenda, rather than respond to what is written, it becomes clearer to every one just what your game is.

        Community is about the needs and desires of the whole community, and single issue zealots stand out liek sore thumbs.

      Nice community here.
      Someone tells me that I have to accept certain things for entering the "boy's club", and I constantly get donvotes. This is the year 2013.

      Look, I don't have to accept any rules made by the "boy's club". And as long as I get associated with "feminazism", I will keep on complaining. Telling women that they are all interpreting things false will not change anything. Saying that there are worse problems is not the solution for "trivial" problems.

      So, all machos, please now klick on the minus minus button to keep the illusion you have all the power.
      (and don't forget to log out again before replying)

        Nice community here. Someone tells me that I have to accept certain things for entering the "boy's club", and I constantly get donvotes. This is the year 2013.

        Its a turd troll fight :) automatic downvotes for all participants feeding the trolls, the only way to win is not to play the game

        Talking about downvotes (esp outside of designated area, PerlMonks Discussion) gets downvotes

        This isn't the first time you've tangled with trolls on perlmonks, as if trolls are reasonable and can be reasoned with

        And now you've lost your cool, and started misusing "macho" in the most negative way possible, implying that all who downvote you for feeding trolls are violent, rude, womanizing, and prone to alcoholism.

        Excuse me while I turn on the Village People and go Snap into a Slim Jim, oooooh yeah!

        well, I've donwvoted you.

        Cause, you know, this is a perl-related resource and I want to see here a perl-related discussions, and not about homosexual feelings, al-quaeda views, islamic faith and so on and so forth. And for fck sake, I have a minus button just like you. So will you now click the 'reply' button and fire up another 1k messages in thread saying I'm doing it wrong?

      Honey, you're ...
      And of course, using the word "honey" is a compliment, and if it feels sexist to me in this context, then of course I'm only imagining again.

        Hun, you're so preoccupied looking for reasons to take offense, you missing (or just choosing to ignore) all the clues that should be telling you that it isn't (and could not be) there.

        Self indulgent and proud. Way to be girl.

        You really must learn that Women's Issues is quite different to a woman's issue.

      There is so much wrong with this I'll just refer you to Rock Paper Shotgun.

      And I notice you're posting anonymously. You'll say it, but you won't claim it. Perhaps because you know you'd have to deal with it, hmm?

        the sad thing is, that 7 people upvoted it. We're in the year 2013 and at least 7 users think it's ok to call the perl community a boy's club, and if women enter, they have to "expect" certain things.
        apart from that I find that post very insulting in its language. and nobody else seems to care, apart from 7 downvoters (edit: at least 12 now), which gives the post a reputation of zero, which is IMHO still too high for post like this.
        Your criticism was not insulting, my criticism was not insulting, but some anonymous monk can write such a post here and get a non-negative reputation.
        Seems a significant number of users here live still in stoneage and think, insulting is a legitimate instrument to make those annoying feminists just go away.
      Kid, you're exactly the sort of faux-macho chest-beater that necessitates feminism in the first place, every time you decide to go off on one of your alpha-male scent-markings. If you wanna be part of the big boy club, don't go being offended because they expect you to act like an adult. No one is asking you to stop cracking jokes, but demanding that everyone laugh at everything you laugh at will just drive them all away. Then all that's left is you and your oh-so-edgy comedy routine. And where's the fun in that. Boy, that sure sounds obnoxious and condescending, doesn't it? Now imagine if that were the subtext of a sizeable chunk of things people said to and around you. Lovely. I'm offended by the original poll option and absolutely disgusted by this response. And I do possess a penis. Not that it should matter, but for some reason you seem immensely preoccupied with your fellow developers' genitalia.

        You're the only person that has mention penii or the size of anything.

        Which just seems appropriate some how.

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