Beefy Boxes and Bandwidth Generously Provided by pair Networks kudra
Do you know where your variables are?
 
PerlMonks  

Re: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

by Lady_Aleena (Chaplain)
on Apr 09, 2013 at 07:09 UTC ( #1027660=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

pemungkah, shetech, tinita, and schwern: As a woman in the PerlMonks community, I am not offended by the "I refuse to acknowledge the term man hours" option which seems to target a specific type of woman. As with every other poll hosted here, I see them all as tongue-in-cheek humor. If I were to get offended by every instance of this kind of humor on the web, I would be in a straight jacket or have had a heart attack by now. I will not try to divine punch_card_don's intent with the option. Has anyone asked him why he included it and if he meant any offense by it?

I am for gender equality, so do not think for a moment I would allow myself or other women to be degraded in a serious discussion nor would most of the people here in my experience. If a woman were attacked for being a woman, I know in my heart the administration would take immediate action. I have never had any trouble being a woman on PerlMonks.

So, please do not get offended by something so inconsequential as a poll on PerlMonks. As for me, I do not have the energy to get so worked up over it. I am going to go back to writing more perl and talking in the Chatterbox.

PS. The only drawback I have encountered being a woman on PerlMonks is newbies who like to send me private messages for help eschewing the guys. I am definitely not as nice as some of the guys here, and more importantly, I do not know as much as they do. Why is it newbies come to me first?

Have a cookie and a very nice day!
Lady Aleena


Comment on Re: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
Re^2: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 09, 2013 at 07:27 UTC

    Why is it newbies come to me first?

    Could it be that Lady implies some sort of, code of honor or etiquette or some such ?

    Bad experiences with Your Mother or GrandFather or Neighbour?

    Fear of critters like Ratazong and grizzley?

    Could it be your homenode pic isn't scary?

    Hmm, I wonder if Lady Punchaleena would invite the same inquiries :p

Re^2: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by fisher (Priest) on Apr 09, 2013 at 10:13 UTC
    You're my hero. Bravo.
Re^2: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 09, 2013 at 21:19 UTC

    As a mere observer, what concerns me is not so much the original poll choice.

    What concerns me far more is the vitriolic reaction: the many comments actively seeking to raise the bar and be ever more mean-spirited and condescending. Is it really so unthinkable that we should respect someone else's right to be offended? Would it be so mortally embarrassing to admit that maybe one's joke didn't work as well as expected for the particular audience?

    The joke in the poll was in poor taste. It happens. The schoolyard bullying that has followed is inexcusable, and the conversation about that is much more important.

Re^2: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by pemungkah (Priest) on Apr 09, 2013 at 22:55 UTC
    Lady Aleena, I hear you that this didn't bother you, and I'm glad that for whatever reasons it didn't. I believe it may be because you've learned that despite social missteps like this one, there are a lot of great people here, or simply that because of who you are, people treat you very well. (And there's nothing wrong with that! Everybody has people they really like. Lady_Aleena is one of those for many, including me.)

    But I would like to be clear here: I didn't say "I think this would bother Lady_Aleena". I said, "this bothers me," and I said why: I feel like it paints a false picture of who we are. I think that 90%+ of the people on Perlmonks really don't think that jokes like that are polite to make.

    If we're truly trying to build a level playing field for everyone who comes to Perlmonks, then it should be a space in which it's possible to say, "I am uncomfortable with this" and get real discussion about the issue. Even if I'm completely off-base.

    Discussion is not, "you're wrong, shut up and go away", just in case there was doubt about that. It's actually listening, actually considering, interacting honestly and directly.

    Sure it's possible that the community standards are different from mine. But it should be a discussable question as to whether they are as good as they could be, as welcoming as they could be, and as open as they could be. I was shocked and stunned at the level of anger and hate in some of the replies, and I did react badly, and I regret having done that. I know better than that.

    What was said to me did not feel like the sometimes scratchy, but generally cohesive place I thought I knew after my 13 years here. That makes me quite sad.

      ..it should be a space in which it's possible to say, "I am uncomfortable with this"

      But that's not what you originally wrote.

      You originally went on the attack - very first post. You weren't just uncomfortable with it, you found it "really offensive". It wasn't just maybe a little politically-incorrect, it was a whole construct to cloak agression in a strawman. And every male Monk was a carrier of vile privilege they had better acknowledge and renounce or they are part of a problem. That one post was infinitely more offensive by it's overt, unmistakable epxression than anything one could infer from the original joke through a biased lens. That's why you got flack back - because you overtly offended people.

      And ever since, you made whole swaths of Monks feel that they were unwelcome. Quite literaly saying in some posts that because a person didn't adhere to your values they didn't really belong. You have been the one trying to impose a code on everyone and excluding any mindset that doesnt' conform to your highly specialized way of thinking.

        Yep, I screwed up, and do you know what I did?

        I apologized. And I'm happy to do it again for you.

        So: I apologize if the manner in which I expressed myself made you or anyone else feel excluded or unwanted. I did not want to make you feel unwelcome. I will be careful not to express myself in this way again.

        I believe this is either the third or fourth version of this apology I have posted; I'll be happy to apologize to any named poster who feels his or her issue was not addressed.

Log In?
Username:
Password:

What's my password?
Create A New User
Node Status?
node history
Node Type: note [id://1027660]
help
Chatterbox?
and the web crawler heard nothing...

How do I use this? | Other CB clients
Other Users?
Others rifling through the Monastery: (15)
As of 2014-04-18 11:45 GMT
Sections?
Information?
Find Nodes?
Leftovers?
    Voting Booth?

    April first is:







    Results (466 votes), past polls