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Re^9: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

by Anonymous Monk
on Apr 09, 2013 at 14:49 UTC ( #1027758=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re^8: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
in thread How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

Its a poll option, men and women and dogs are I, whomever is hanging on the poll

I dog refuse to acknowledge the term man hours, you patriarchical pig. But I have many dog-hours. And let me tell you.....

It makes fun of people incapable of carrying on a normal conversation who turn every syllable into a tirade on something or other (gender neutral language..)

In no way does it say women/minority/foreign are inherently less

That its screams worthless-female-feminist-trope to you speaks to your bias, not mine, I don't live in a patriarchal society

If I said look at that casserole would you say I'm prejudiced against poodles? Even if its 80% macaroni and 20% cheese?

Yeah, that last one got away from me -- feel free to now claim I called you worthless poodle hanging mac and cheese casserole

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Re^10: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by pemungkah (Priest) on Apr 09, 2013 at 20:58 UTC
    That's the thing about bias. It says, "I'm already sure there's no problem here," and then someone says "seriously, can we look at this? I think there's a problem", and bias says, "No, there's no problem, we already know that, what is wrong with you?".

    When Perl throws an error message in a program you're "sure" is correct, how do you treat that? Do you ignore it because you're already sure that everything's fine? Or do you actually investigate until you know why the error was thrown?

    Let me explain why I'm throwing an error here.

    There is no reason to use the phrase "patriarchal pig" on Perlmonks unless you are a) ineptly attempting to call out someone for abusing privilege which you see as stemming from their being male, or b) using it as a dog-whistle to send the message "nudge-nudge, wink-wink, oh those silly women and their silly ideas about male privilege!". The poll writer was not a member of (a), therefore it seems likely that he was going for meaning (b). His non-apology to us "flakes" seems to confirm my conclusion.

    The fact that you literally cannot believe that patriarchy exists at all surprises me. If you live in an equal society, does it not seem then that one "equal" group its taking the mickey out on another here? Isn't that wrong in an equal society, that one group should belittle another?

    I'm just trying to understand what it is exactly you are trying to say here.

      ... I'm just trying to understand what it is exactly you are trying to say here.

      I'm saying you're overly fond of reading between the lines, so much so, that 90% of things you complain about come directly from you

      Try your tactics in real life and see how far you get

        I'm sorry, apparently I wasn't sufficiently clear. Let me try again in a different way.

        When you say live in a society which is not patriarchal, I wonder whether there might not be some assumptions that you're making. Let's assume that you do not live in a patriarchal society and come up with some questions that might confirm or deny that - all measurable, quantifiable, and verifiable items.

        • Are men and women equally represented in government - that is, are your legislative bodies made up of approximately 50% men and 50% women?
        • Are men and women always paid the same for the same job? (there will be a fudge factor, of course, since not every job is exactly the same, but let's arbitrarily say...5%? I'm willing to adjust that a bit, but the typical 30+% is over the limit of "equal".)
        • Are men just as likely to be working in caregiving jobs as in leadership roles? For example, are there as many male nurses and kindergarden teachers as there are female ones, and are there as many women who are doctors and hospital administrators as there are men?
        • Are those staying home to take care of the children approximately equally split between men and women?
        These to me would be signs that a society was not patriarchal. I am perfectly willing to accept any other verifiable and quantifiable measures you would like to use instead, but these should be indicative.

        As far as reading between the lines, I tried to actively reflect back to you that I was concerned that you might possibly be biased in your personal observations, and to explain how that might work. I apologize if you thought I was trying to do anything else, if that's what came across then I phrased it badly and I am sorry.

        I do very much try to do this in my work because it's often the case that a simple statement of "I want this", when examined to make sure that the implications are understood, may either be far more complex that was assumed, or actually much, much simpler. Sometimes it is necessary to reflect back to the person you're talking to "I think what you're saying is this, which implies these things. Is that what you are saying?" Sometimes the answer will be, "yes, and..."; other times it will be, "no, that isn't what I want at all! I want...", and the conversation becomes more productive for everyone.

        So: there are things that should server to prove or disprove the hypothesis that "my society is not patriarchal", with an offer to examine other experiments if you find those inadequate. I will of course evaluate alternate criteria and tell you if I find assumptions in those that might invalidate them.

        And of course, if you feel there is an alternate more productive way to validate or invalidate your statement, I will listen to your proposal.

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