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Re^11: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

by Anonymous Monk
on Apr 10, 2013 at 08:33 UTC ( #1027932=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^10: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
in thread How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

... I'm just trying to understand what it is exactly you are trying to say here.

I'm saying you're overly fond of reading between the lines, so much so, that 90% of things you complain about come directly from you

Try your tactics in real life and see how far you get


Comment on Re^11: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
Re^12: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by pemungkah (Priest) on Apr 11, 2013 at 02:37 UTC
    I'm sorry, apparently I wasn't sufficiently clear. Let me try again in a different way.

    When you say live in a society which is not patriarchal, I wonder whether there might not be some assumptions that you're making. Let's assume that you do not live in a patriarchal society and come up with some questions that might confirm or deny that - all measurable, quantifiable, and verifiable items.

    • Are men and women equally represented in government - that is, are your legislative bodies made up of approximately 50% men and 50% women?
    • Are men and women always paid the same for the same job? (there will be a fudge factor, of course, since not every job is exactly the same, but let's arbitrarily say...5%? I'm willing to adjust that a bit, but the typical 30+% is over the limit of "equal".)
    • Are men just as likely to be working in caregiving jobs as in leadership roles? For example, are there as many male nurses and kindergarden teachers as there are female ones, and are there as many women who are doctors and hospital administrators as there are men?
    • Are those staying home to take care of the children approximately equally split between men and women?
    These to me would be signs that a society was not patriarchal. I am perfectly willing to accept any other verifiable and quantifiable measures you would like to use instead, but these should be indicative.

    As far as reading between the lines, I tried to actively reflect back to you that I was concerned that you might possibly be biased in your personal observations, and to explain how that might work. I apologize if you thought I was trying to do anything else, if that's what came across then I phrased it badly and I am sorry.

    I do very much try to do this in my work because it's often the case that a simple statement of "I want this", when examined to make sure that the implications are understood, may either be far more complex that was assumed, or actually much, much simpler. Sometimes it is necessary to reflect back to the person you're talking to "I think what you're saying is this, which implies these things. Is that what you are saying?" Sometimes the answer will be, "yes, and..."; other times it will be, "no, that isn't what I want at all! I want...", and the conversation becomes more productive for everyone.

    So: there are things that should server to prove or disprove the hypothesis that "my society is not patriarchal", with an offer to examine other experiments if you find those inadequate. I will of course evaluate alternate criteria and tell you if I find assumptions in those that might invalidate them.

    And of course, if you feel there is an alternate more productive way to validate or invalidate your statement, I will listen to your proposal.

      When you say live in a society which is not patriarchal... These to me would be signs that a society was not patriarchal.

      Women can work/vote/hold office/get abortions/decide who to have sex with and who to marry -- not patriarchal by definition

      I'm sorry, apparently I wasn't sufficiently clear. Let me try again in a different way.

      Nope, you were clear the first time. You like to redefine terms, fill in imaginary blanks, and take offense ... the very definition of a feminazi

      Great, now I learned a word Rush Limbaugh invented

        You proposed a hypothesis. I suggested experiments that would give us a binary yes or no answer about whether patriarchy existed in the situations outlined. You rejected them out-of-hand without explanation.

        You substituted an unverifiable set of assertions as defining "no patriarchy". So let me ask some questions to fill out my understanding of your vague definition.

        Does "can" mean "every woman is free to do so when and where she sees fit, with no limiting regulation or societal stricture"? I "can" possess marijuana, but I can only legally do so in a couple states in the US; elsewhere I may go to jail; this is an example of "can" with a limit. "Can" a woman get an abortion anywhere, without fear? (If you've seen abortion protests in the US, you'll understand what I mean.)

        Perhaps where you live is different from the US; in which case, good for you guys, and I hope we catch up sometime soon.

        If you do live in the US, I'm afraid we have irreconcilable perceptions of the amount of freedom and encouragement/discouragement women get here, and there's no point in trying to talk about this further.

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