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Re^3: A $dayjob Perl 6 program that runs 40x faster on the JVM than on Parrot

by chromatic (Archbishop)
on Aug 04, 2013 at 02:16 UTC ( #1047755=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^2: A $dayjob Perl 6 program that runs 40x faster on the JVM than on Parrot
in thread A $dayjob Perl 6 program that runs 40x faster on the JVM than on Parrot

In 2009 I predicted Perl 6 would get to 6.0.0 and a generally robust state about a year from now.

In the very link you posted, you predicted that Rakudo would be "ready in 2010 for use in limited ways" and in "another year or two (from 2009) to be usable for limited production contexts". If I were you, I wouldn't keep bringing up your powers of prognostication.

... nor the negativity toward Perl 6 being voiced by some leaders in the Perl community which I suspect has had an effect...

Why do I keep having to tell you that this argument is nonsense?

I've said plenty of unpleasant things about a lot of languages (PHP, Java, Python, Haskell, C, C++, Perl 5, SQL, Javascript) and yet people use those, so I very much think that the expression of my opinion really isn't the primary driver of language adoption (or disadoption) that you seem to think it is.

People aren't avoiding Rakudo because I say it's a project floundering in the wilderness without the supervision of an adult who really wants to make it into a useful and usable product for general consumption. People are avoiding Rakudo because P6 hasn't delivered anything useful and usable for general consumption in thirteen years. How many times (for one example) does someone like Sebastian Riedel have to say "Gee, I wish Rakudo supported sockets!" before you figure out that the lack of any sane socket support is keeping him from doing anything he wants to do with it? How many times (for another example) does someone like me have to say "Gee, I wish Rakudo had documentation that wasn't a pile of specification tests hyperlinked to synopses under constant churn!" before you figure out that maybe documentation would be a nice thing? How many times does someone have to get on #perl6 and say "I tried to use this module, but it didn't work!" before you figure out that maybe keeping a working ecosystem might let people get things done?

As for Solomon's benchmark, it doesn't rise to the level of data because it's merely an anecdote without context. Until and unless someone can explain why one implementation is faster than the other, it's just gossip.


Comment on Re^3: A $dayjob Perl 6 program that runs 40x faster on the JVM than on Parrot
Re^4: A $dayjob Perl 6 program that runs 40x faster on the JVM than on Parrot
by raiph (Hermit) on Aug 04, 2013 at 20:15 UTC
    my opinion really isn't the primary driver of language adoption

    My interest is trying to encourage contribution not adoption. (I've always thought adoption will largely take care of itself and will reflect how robust the product is.)

    People are avoiding Rakudo because P6 hasn't delivered anything useful and usable for general consumption in thirteen years.

    By mid 2003 people were avoiding Mozilla because it hadn't produced anything useful and usable for general consumption despite spending many millions of dollars and 6 years on it. Because I knew what was going on behind the scenes, I chose to continue to contribute and try to attract more contributors in the face of ill-informed ridicule and attacks. The same applies to Perl 6.

    sane socket support?

    sri's issue is non-blocking sockets which depends on using the underlying VM's support for concurrency. As labster said less than a week ago, the current short term plan is "get the JVM working ... start getting threads flushed out ... then buffers, and sockets". As things stand right now the JVM is sufficiently working, some initial concurrency primitives including threads have been implemented (more have arrived since that commit), jnthn made a series of improvements to the Buf type just before leaving for a week vacation, and today, his first day since returning, he's begun making socket commits.

    documentation that wasn't a pile of specification tests hyperlinked to synopses under constant churn

    See Perl 6 documentation.

    keeping a working ecosystem might let people get things done

    People manage to get things done.

    Module breakage is generally relative to git head, not Rakudo Star (the quarterly batteries included distribution which is what users wanting stability should use).

    #perl6 is typically very responsive to any regressions brought to their attention by a user.

    Head is developing rapidly. So there's often a lot of breakage against head. This has reached an all time peak in the last few weeks.

      I chose to continue to contribute and try to attract more contributors in the face of ill-informed ridicule and attacks.

      I stopped contributing because I was tired of people talking about how good things were surely going to be in the very near future and then doing almost nothing to make them happen. You're keeping up a fine and well established tradition here of making big promises based on things people say.

      See Perl 6 documentation.

      Keep telling yourself that a series of blogs, example mathematical puzzles, and Larry promising that this year for sure he'll write a book (he's been saying that since 2005) are acceptable forms of documentation that people like me want. (They aren't.)

      I've always thought adoption will largely take care of itself and will reflect how robust the product is.

      Finally, we agree on something.

        Keep telling yourself that a series of blogs, example mathematical puzzles, and Larry promising that this year for sure he'll write a book (he's been saying that since 2005) are acceptable forms of documentation that people like me want. (They aren't.)

        You suggested that the only documentation was "a pile of specification tests hyperlinked to synopses under constant churn". That comment ignored the doc.perl6.org project and the above follow up does so again.

        You do Rosettacode a great disservice, and mislead monks, when you suggest that it's just mathematical puzzles. The 679 programming tasks cover any programming task contributors have chosen to contribute. It only takes a quick glance to see that most of them are things like basic and advanced programming techniques, file, string, Unicode, and date manipulation, and so on. (There are Perl 6 solutions for over 600 of them.)

        (Edit: removed comment about Larry, and simplified initial paragraph.)

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