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Re^2: A Melancholy Monkday

by Anonymous Monk
on Jan 20, 2014 at 05:38 UTC ( #1071272=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: A Melancholy Monkday
in thread A Melancholy Monkday

Its strange that you talk so much at length about Perl 5 and not mention a word about Perl 6.

Nothing that Perl 5 can ever do will bring back those glory days. Mostly because many things that Perl 5 used to offer as USP are now available in other languages. The remaining ones don't really make that much of killer features.

Perl 6 was supposed to fix these very problems. Due to unfixable problems plaguing Perl 5. And we haven't seen anything from the Perl 6 project that could be considered worth replacing Perl 5.

A moment of introspection. Don't take this is as a the usual Perl 6 troll posts. But frankly speaking how much of band aid can possibly fix Perl 5.?It can keep Perl 5 alive for its existing user base. But there is no way you can compete with the newer breed of languages with routine 2 year release making small time syntax improvements.

Perl 6 has to also take it as seriously as Perl 5 does. Stop pedantic debates on production readiness and release something what rest of the world considers production ready.


Comment on Re^2: A Melancholy Monkday
Re^3: A Melancholy Monkday
by moritz (Cardinal) on Jan 20, 2014 at 06:52 UTC
    Its strange that you talk so much at length about Perl 5 and not mention a word about Perl 6.

    I did mention it, albeit indirectly. Just look at where the "revolution" link takes you. That said, I've talked about Perl 6 here on perlmonks often enough that I assume most regulars here are familiar with stances. Or if not, it's easy for them to read my older ramblings on Perl 6.

    Perl 6 was supposed to fix these very problems. Due to unfixable problems plaguing Perl 5. And we haven't seen anything from the Perl 6 project that could be considered worth replacing Perl 5.

    Nothing from the Perl 6 project can, at the moment, be considered a worthy replacement for Perl 5 at every level. At individual levels (for example expressiveness, or concurrency (on the JVM backend at least)), Perl 6 and its current main implementation, Rakudo, are actually superior to Perl 5. There is still much work to do (much more than anybody imagined when the Perl 6 efforted started), but I'm still hopeful.

    But there is no way you can compete with the newer breed of languages with routine 2 year release making small time syntax improvements.

    ... which is why I'm invested in the Perl 6 effort. I wish more people would realize that the long term health (and I'm talking about > 5 years here) of Perl depends on Perl 6. For all its maturity, Perl 5 simply can't move fast enough to be competitive with all the rest of the languages out there.

    Stop pedantic debates on production readiness and release something what rest of the world considers production ready.

    Telling volunteers what to do is never going to work. That said, you can be assured that I spend about 98% of my Perl 6 time actually improving stuff, and only 2% responding to troll.

      I disagree that Rakudo is superior to Perl 5. It depends on the definition you use. But I would say talking in terms of usefulness, Perl 5 is definitely a far stable alternative, with documentation, and CPAN support. Rakudo is slow, feature incomplete, has no documentation and standard libraries(let alone CPAN support)

      >>There is still much work to do...but I'm still hopeful.

      This almost smells like RMS defending the GNU Hurd project. Which when applied to the Perl 6 project is really scary.

      >>Telling volunteers what to do is never going to work. That said, you can be assured that I spend about 98% of my Perl 6 time actually improving stuff

      One can argue what that stuff is, For example was MoarVM even necessary? All that effort could have rather been spent on making Rakudo feature complete. Rakudo has seen so many rewrites, so many sub projects given the history one can almost say there won't any thing worthwhile may be even 5-6 years from now.

      My worst fear is, Rakudo branching out to more backends in the near future. Stalling all feature completion efforts and instead having several other bug ridden ports for other backends

      >>2% responding to troll.

      Of course these days, any criticism of the Perl 6 project is considered trolling.

      and lastly ...

      You mentioned in your previous comment

      And all efforts depend on admitting that there's something wrong in the first place.

      I think you should read what you wrote a couple of times, seriously and ponder how much that applies to Perl 6

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