OT: Web Services, Java and .NET

[converter]

This story on Linux Today is definitely off-topic for perlmonks, but provides some excellent insight into .NET, web services, and the tools used to implement them. If, like me, you're interested in the web services concept this piece should clear some things up for you.

For what it's worth, I would love a follow-up from a Perl hacker's perspective.

conv

[jeffa]

To sum up my opinion of Mr. Prasad's article, i will quote an anonymous critic on Andy's Kaufman's remarks to a Memphis, TN professional wrestling crowd:
Personally, i thought his opinion's stunk
Mr. Prasad sure is hell bent on Java as the ONLY tool to develope Open Source with. So, if i am a 'mule', Mr. Prasad, so be it! I like Java - i just think Perl is a a better language for handling SOAP and XML.

Apparently he has never heard of mod_soap via SOAP::Lite. maverick and myself wrote a distributed AAA system using web services with that module, entirely in Perl - and with Apache, not IIS.

SOAP and web services, IMHO, should allow programmers to pick ANY LANGUAGE they want. SOAP is just glorified socket programming made a little easier, and a whole lot more portable across languages. Why can't we all get just along?

/me steps off of soapbox

jeffa

[perrin]

The trouble with this guy is that he:
1) Thinks "web services" matter.
2) Doesn't understand how pathetically easy they are to build.

Clay Shirky does a good job of stating the obvious about web services in this article.

And did this guy fail to actually read the specs of the tech he's pushing? The reason things like SOAP are in XML is so you don't have to use Java to interact with them. The idea that you somehow require Enterprise Java Beans to make a web service shows just how much some people will believe what they're told about technology. I watched Matt Sargeant make a web service at TPC with perl in about 2 minutes while a live audience looked on. Given how much traffic most web services are likeley to get, the laptop he ran it on was massive overkill.

[converter]

Now tell us what you really think. :)

Seriously, I found the article valuable mostly for its explanation of the services concept and implementation. The description of the Java abstractions available for interfacing with services sounds very sexy, but I suspect that a "Perl" (or CPAN) column would be populated at least as densely as the J2EE column.

Anyone volunteer to put together a list of Perl equivalents?

(silly me, I clicked the wrong link, I meant to reply to jeffa)

[jeffa]

Heh, all in good fun! :D

Putting all anger aside, i would like to add that the article is indeed educational and enlightening - just take the propaganda with a grain of salt.

I want to re-print a piece from Java Enterprise in a Nutshell, page 4. If anyone feels threatened by me posting a quote from a copyrighted book, i will remove this. Also note that this is pre-Y2K literature.

• Enterprise computing usually takes place in a heterogeneous network: one in which the computers range from large mainframes and supercomputers down to PCs ... The only common denominator is that all the computers in the network speak the same fundamental network protocol (usually TCP/IP).
• A variety of server applications run on top of the heterogeneous network hardware. An enterprise might have database software from three different companies, each of which defines different, incompatible extensions.
• Enterprise computing involves the use of many different network protocols and standards. Some standards overlap in small or significant ways. Many have been extended in various vendor-specific, nonstandard ways. Some are quite old and use a vocabulary and terminology that dates back to an earlier era of computing...
• Enterprise computing has only recently (1999) emerged as an integrated discipline of its own. Although enterprise development models are today becoming more cohesive and encompassing, many enterprises are still left with lots of "legacy systems" that are aggregated in an ad-hoc way.
• Enterprise programmers, like many of us in the high-tech world, tend to make their work seem more complicated that (sic) it actually is. This is a natural human tendency - to be part of the "in" group and keep outsiders out - but this tendency seems somehow magnified within the computer industry.
That is the basis of Enterprise Programming - it has grown since 1999, but the meat is still the same: create an interface into an outdated COBOL legacy system instead of replacing it with a costly new one. Personally, i think this is merely treating the symptom, but i am not a company with a super tight budget. :)

But why is Perl NOT capable of sovling this task?

The only thing i see that would not allow Perl into this "enterprise club" is a lack of stable threads. But i still have hope!

Thanks to lachoy for providing those links, i just signed up for the P5EE mailing list. And don't forget this wonderful link:

http://www.soaplite.com

jeffa

[lachoy]

Lots of smart people are thinking about precisely this thing right now. See a use Perl note and this informal homepage. Get in on the ground level!

Chris
M-x auto-bs-mode