Re: "Buffer Overflow" rant in Risks Digest
by Chrisf (Friar) on Jan 07, 2002 at 01:19 UTC
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Good article, it addresses what is probably going to become a very large issue in the near future. From the article...
Software crashes due to mere incompetence apparently don't raise any eyebrows, because no one wants to fault the incompetent programmer (and his incompetent boss). So we have to conjure up "bad guys" as "boogie men" in (hopefully) far-distant lands who "hack our systems", rather than noticing that in pointing one finger at the hacker, we still have three fingers pointed at ourselves.
He hit it dead on here, you can see examples of companies blaming their products faults on "hackers" everyday, and of course they are rarely called on it by the media.
There would obviously be strong opposition from many large software companies against any sort of legislation (it could put microsoft out of business pretty fast ;-) but something really does need to be done about this. The difficult part of this issue is deciding how far to go with legal penalties for negligent companies. I'm interested to hear what everyone here feels constitutes negligence.
There was another good article over at security focus a little while ago as well.
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Re: "Buffer Overflow" rant in Risks Digest
by Cybercosis (Monk) on Jan 07, 2002 at 02:18 UTC
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I don't think anything in the article referenced mentioned anything
about _unknown_ security holes. The topic was security problems that
have been in existence for quite some time and have well known fixes
(the example problem: buffer overflow, fix: bounds checking,
existence: since before many of todays programmers were even born).
Why would a buffer overflow problem "not" be considered negligence?
While some of the jokes about what would happen if car manufacturers
followed the design and implementation practices of some large
software corporation have some humor in them, they generally fail to
state the rather unfunny truth that a good number of both users and
non-users of such vehicles would be dead.
Does the software you write contain the standard liability
disclaimers? Are you not willing to take full _responsibility_ and
_liability_ for your software working according to spec and not
failing in the face of *known* bugs and security issues? Are you
prepared to pay damages if your software fails due to a problem
widely known in the industry? If not, why not and why is it so
acceptable for software to be a 'use at your own risk' product? Why
is the software profession not really a profession at all? Why is
there no infrastructure for the 'software profession'? No bar exam?
No licence? Have you looked into malpractice insurance for the
'software profession'? Doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. have
licences to practice, and insurance, and risk losing them in the
course of performing their practice.
Bearing the cost of liability is not competitive if everyone isn't
doing it, and everyone won't be doing it unless a regulative body is
in place to define and manage the currently non-existent so-called
software 'profession'. And none of that will ever get started unless
at the very least the serious and widely known problems like
buffer-overflow bugs in software become recognized as the gross
negligences that they are and punishable with damages. Once
potentially costly damages are in play, large software houses see
a benefit in being able to hire licenced programmers if only there
were some and the ball starts rolling. I would welcome that day both
as a developer and as a consumer.
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Would a manufacturer of automobiles, for instance, be willing to warrant his products against catastrophic failure if he were forced to build his product using materials from sources who refused to make similar guarantees, because the materials from which they manufactured their products offered no guarantees?
No. He'd be insane.
When you write software, you can't guarantee much unless you can be certain that the software used to create it and the software upon which it depends come with the same assurances.
What about liability? ISVs have been playing the blame game for years. They get away with it because their denials are plausible. I doubt this will ever change.
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Re: "Buffer Overflow" rant in Risks Digest
by ariels (Curate) on Jan 07, 2002 at 12:40 UTC
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Indeed. And of course you have tons of XS code (in C, usually) that could very well have an unchecked strcpy or two (guilty of that myself, in one spot, now fixed)...
Michael
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