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New hints....

by demerphq (Chancellor)
on Feb 28, 2002 at 19:39 UTC ( #148351=monkdiscuss: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

Today I posted a site patch to change the little hints that are displayed underneath the new post submission.

Basically the issue it attempts to address is that many new posters dont know how to write a post properly and seem to ignore the current advice. (Too small and in italics is a good recipe to be ignored IMO).

So my patch provides a link to the list of approved tags, along as actually listing the ones currently (ie today) allowed. I think this is a cool for two reasons, the first is that it makes it patently obvious that the use of HTML tags in the post is a necessity. Second it provide the tags available for cutting and pasting for those of use who are like me and cant remember more than 3 tags at a time. ;-)

I thought I would post my proposal here as well as to those that are in the position to approve the proposal to see what the community thinks.

Everything between the lines is part of my patch:


  • Are you posting in the right place? Check out Where do I post X? to know for sure.
  • Posts may use any of the Perl Monks Approved HTML tags   Currently these include the following....
      <CODE> <A> <B> <BIG> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <DD> <DL> <DT> <EM> <FONT> <H1> <H2> <H3> <H4> <H5> <H6> <HR> <I> <LI> <NBSP> <OL> <P> <SMALL> <STRIKE> <STRONG> <SUB> <SUP> <TABLE> <TD> <TH> <TR> <TT> <U> <UL>
  • Snippets of code should be wrapped n <CODE> tags NOT <PRE> tags. In fact <PRE> tags should in general be avoided but if they must be used then extreme care should be taken to ensure that their contents do not have long lines (<70 chars). Otherwise the Editors might get mad at you.
  • Want more info? How to link
  • or How to display code and escape characters are good places to start.


Im hoping that ultimately this gets approved and we see a few less mangled posts and really ling lines....

Oh and im pretty sure its sized so that it fits exactly underneath the textbox, with the title visible.

Yves / DeMerphq
--
When to use Prototypes?
Advanced Sorting - GRT - Guttman Rosler Transform

Comment on New hints....
Re: New hints....
by Masem (Monsignor) on Feb 28, 2002 at 20:01 UTC
    One thing I would like to see expanded in the hints below the postbox is the "where to post" question, specifically:
    • the distinction between SOPW and Q&A. The latter should be more general perl questions and should be very short akin to FAQ questions (with a link to perlfaq); SOPW are more specific and may require a longer setup to explain.
    • the distinction between Meditations and Discussion. The latter is for discussion on the mechanics and operation of PerlMonks the site, the former is for all other general perl discussion.
    Still retain the links, but I think these two points should be clarified if we're going to add more to it to start with.

    -----------------------------------------------------
    Dr. Michael K. Neylon - mneylon-pm@masemware.com || "You've left the lens cap of your mind on again, Pinky" - The Brain
    "I can see my house from here!"
    It's not what you know, but knowing how to find it if you don't know that's important

      The problem with adding more is to ensure that it all fits on one screen (assuming a standard monitor size).

      Still this seems to fit ok:


      • Are you posting in the right place? Short general question? Q&A Longer or non general question? SOPW General thoughts on perlish subjects? Meditations Is it about the monastery? PMD Check out Where do I post X? for more.
      • Posts may use any of the Perl Monks Approved HTML tags   Currently these include the following....
          <CODE> <A> <B> <BIG> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <DD> <DL> <DT> <EM> <FONT> <H1> <H2> <H3> <H4> <H5> <H6> <HR> <I> <LI> <NBSP> <OL> <P> <SMALL> <STRIKE> <STRONG> <SUB> <SUP> <TABLE> <TD> <TH> <TR> <TT> <U> <UL>
      • Snippets of code should be wrapped n <CODE> tags NOT <PRE> tags. In fact <PRE> tags should in general be avoided but if they must be used then extreme care should be taken to ensure that their contents do not have long lines (<70 chars). Otherwise the Editors might get mad at you.
      • Want more info? How to link
      • or How to display code and escape characters are good places to start.

      Is that what you had in mind?

      Yves / DeMerphq
      --
      When to use Prototypes?
      Advanced Sorting - GRT - Guttman Rosler Transform

        Pretty close, save that I wouldn't use abbreviations in the text here, since this should be considered newbie text.

        But it was only meant to be a suggestion, or at least a starting point for additional discussion. :-) If others feel it's not needed, then it's not needed.

        -----------------------------------------------------
        Dr. Michael K. Neylon - mneylon-pm@masemware.com || "You've left the lens cap of your mind on again, Pinky" - The Brain
        "I can see my house from here!"
        It's not what you know, but knowing how to find it if you don't know that's important

        Some questions/comments:
        • The list of approved tags is not complete. I imagine PRE was left out on purpose, but why list the tags if it isn't a complete list and there's a link where a complete list is available? I'd rather see that space used for something else--in my experience trying to use unallowed tags is something editors rarely have to fix, compared to
        • the misuse of PRE tags (which is why I think that the line about CODE tags should be listed before approved tags),
        • posting in the wrong place (maybe SOPW should be listed first, as it is where most people should post),
        • people who aren't logged on (when they want to be),
        • and poor titles. I'd rather see the things that cause the most work addressed in the limited space than the things which are automatically taken care of.
        • I agree with the person who suggested the mention of search and super search.
Re: New hints....
by shotgunefx (Parson) on Feb 28, 2002 at 22:11 UTC
    What about

    • Have you tried Searching to see if your question has been answered before?
    Or something similar.

    -Lee

    "To be civilized is to deny one's nature."
Re: New hints....
by gav^ (Curate) on Feb 28, 2002 at 23:51 UTC
    What about:
  • using strict and warnings might be a good idea.

    gav^

Re: New hints....
by funky_aunt (Acolyte) on Mar 01, 2002 at 02:05 UTC
    I would like to thank DeMerphq. As a perl neophyte any road signs pointing in the right direction are helpful.
Re: New hints.... (launching super search on the posts title)
by little (Curate) on Mar 02, 2002 at 07:20 UTC

    just my .02

    When one wants to post to SOPW wouldn't it be possible that when he hits the preview button to start a (super) search on the chosen title of his post and to return the top ten most relevant matches from former posts to SOPW entitled as: "Have you had a look at these previos Questions/ Threads?" on top of the preview page.

    But those results shall only be root nodes and not replies as it happens to be when you actually do a search.

    In this case one could still hold finishing his post while examining those results and in case cancel his post or proceed if he didn't find an answer.


    Have a nice day
    All decision is left to your taste
      Big ++ to demerphq!! I hope it gets approved!

      I would also like to give a thumbs up to little's idea. I remember a time when I used to have no idea that I should search before I post.

      -- Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of defyance.
Re: New hints....
by dws (Chancellor) on Mar 08, 2002 at 20:49 UTC
    The patch is show up sporadically, and when is shows up when viewing a node, it appears to be a signature. I think it should only apply when actively posting or replying.
      When I get time Ill go through and try to standardize where it shows up. But it could be a lot of patching, I make no promises.

      Yves / DeMerphq

(tye)Re: New hints....
by tye (Cardinal) on Mar 08, 2002 at 23:16 UTC

    ar0n made a patch to clean up the HTML to be in line with our desire to be XHTML clean. This includes putting the tags in lower case. Unfortunately, the small font makes <tt> harder to read than <TT> so I dropped the <s and >s and then decided to save some space, giving this:


    • Are you posting in the right place? Check out Where do I post X? to know for sure.
    • Posts may use any of the Perl Monks Approved HTML tags. Currently these include the following: a, b, big, blockquote, br, code, dd, dl, dt, em, font, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, hr, i, li, nbsp, ol, p, pre, small, strike, strong, sub, sup, table, td, th, tr, tt, u, ul
    • Snippets of code should be wrapped in <code> tags not <pre> tags. In fact, <pre> tags should generally be avoided. If they must be used, extreme care should be taken to ensure that their contents do not have long lines (<70 chars), in order to prevent horizontal scrolling (and possible editor intervention).
    • Want more info? How to link or How to display code and escape characters are good places to start.

    Note also that the list of tags is now pulled from the official list so it will automatically stay in sync with what is really allowed.

    Feedback welcome.

            - tye (but my friends call me "Tye")
      Nice. And thanks for redoing the patch. I fully admit it was quick and dirty, I much prefer the way guys did it. Although I admit that I regret the loss of the <'s and >s if only because I wanted to be able to cut and paste them... But not great loss.

      Once again nice fix. I had no idea it was that easy to dynamically get the list of tags.

      Yves / DeMerphq
      --
      When to use Prototypes?
      Advanced Sorting - GRT - Guttman Rosler Transform

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