RE: RE: RE: RE: Visual Perl & ActiveState (Ozymandias: Microsoft As Good Thing I)

[Ozymandias]

I never said I *liked* their products, although as a LAN/Systems administrator I use them every day, too. But until Microsoft's marketing department got into the act, no one was selling such a thing as a "home PC", aside from little toys like the Atari game systems. Once Microsoft started, Apple followed, and IBM and the other hardware manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming into the pit.

I was there; I remember it. I miss my old Apple][, and the Commodore 64 even more; but Microsoft changed that, and it's rare that I think it's a bad thing. After all, Microsoft drove the price of hardware down, and for that I'm grateful; but that doesn't mean I have to use their OS on my hardware.

[nuance]

I was there too :-)

I remember my Atari 1200 with fondness, Atari basic was my first artifical language.

You make some interesting points about Microsoft's marketers, who are undoubtedly the most efficient part of the organisation. I'm still not convinced that Microsoft pushed the price of hardware down. I think that martket forces and Intel's company policy are what pushed the price of hardware down. Electronic goods get cheaper over time, this is an established principle, but one that was initiated by (according to my history texts) Bob Noyce (Intel co-founder) when he worked at Fairchild.

Microsoft don't make hardware devices (Basic UI peripherals excepted) the price of the hardware has nothing to do with them.

Regards

Nuance

Baldrick, you wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle plans are here again!"

[Ozymandias]

Yes and no. Microsoft doesn't make hardware (agreed, keyboards and such excepted) but they DO make the most prevalent (from a home-user standpoint) operating system. One of the things Microsoft did to help along those market forces you mention (and their own pocketbook) was to sell the idea of the home PC to the public. Bob Noyce had nothing to do with it. Ask your mom and dad (or, to play it safe, their neighbor) why they bought their first home PC. If it was a Mac, then they don't fit; Steve Jobs possessed them. But if it was a PC, see if the name "Bob Noyce" is mentioned anywhere.

I knew what Windows was before I knew about Intel; to the average home user, the box is just an appliance, like the TV or the microwave. The "computer" is the operating system, and that's Windows.

- Ozymandias

[nuance]

Have you ever owned a Walkman? Who designed it? What was the name of Sony's Chairman in the year it was designed ? (ask your mom & Dad if they know). OK so people know Gates' name <shrugs shoulders> Big deal what does that prove.

Lets talk about CD's do you know the name of Phillips or Sony's chairman in the year they co-developed CD technology. <sarcasm> It's so obvious really, now that I think about it Microsoft brought the price of CD players Down </sarcasm>.

How many Far East semiconductor manufacturers can the average person on the street name. Does their ignorance mean that they do not benefit from the market forces that drive the price of their computer memory down?

Summary: My contentions

• Consumer electronics fall in price over time. This has very little to do with any one company (this may seem to be at variance with my contention about Noyce, but he set a trend).
• Whether or not people know a company chairmans name is irrelevant to that company's influence.
• Microsoft had next to nothing to do with the price of the hardware their software runs on.
Give Microsoft their due they have convinced people that a computer is a windows machine - excellent marketing but ... complete nonsense

We should probably stop this sometime soon, it's really off-topic :-)

Nuance

Baldrick, you wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle plans are here again!"