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Re: Re: Reputation and Accountability (tye)

by chip (Curate)
on Jun 12, 2003 at 20:18 UTC ( #265482=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Reputation and Accountability (tye)
in thread Reputation and Accountability

One comment of yours, tye, deserves particular rebuke:

...I don't think you were in a mood to interact civilly with identifiable people and needed a good swift kick from an anonymous system to get you to listen.

You were not a system. You were an individual. You hid behind the NodeReaper alias to give yourself a patina of third-person objectivity, to give the impression of being Something Bigger Than Me. I didn't buy it then; it was a lie that merely made me mad. I hope you recognize now how badly you misread me, and how insulting it is to be slapped by remote control.

    -- Chip Salzenberg, Free-Floating Agent of Chaos


Comment on Re: Re: Reputation and Accountability (tye)
Re^3: Reputation and Accountability (system)
by tye (Cardinal) on Jun 12, 2003 at 20:43 UTC

    I find it insulting to be slapped (period). Having been in several confrontations with people, I'm not convinced that the personal touch would have been less upsetting or turned out better. It might have. And sometimes I go that route. I prefer to go that route.

    My read of the situation at the time was that it would have made it worse in this case. Based on your implication to the contrary, I'll reconsider. But I'm not convinced yet that it would have.

                    - tye
      I fear I have confused two points. Allow me to distinguish them.

      1. Being muted is, indeed, intrinsically annoying.

      2. Being muted by someone who isn't willing to reveal his identity is infuriating. It's much worse, to me, than the non-anonymous variety, because it is an abuse of authority. It therefore provokes, not just irritation, but indignation.

      Clearer?

          -- Chip Salzenberg, Free-Floating Agent of Chaos

        I understood.

        I agree that being muted anonymously can be more aggrevating. I assert that it can also be less aggrevating. And I say this from experience on both sides.

        I've been in situations where the fact that the enforcement of some rule was done as a personal judgement by someone completely anonymous to me made me realize that authority was involved and so I should probably pick a different fight. I couldn't even "appeal" to the authority and sometimes that was a good thing. It even worked in this case based on the data I have (in that you kept swearing when asked non-anonymously but stopped when punished anonymously).

        I don't think it is a simple conclusion from "anonymous" to "abuse of power". It should be an exception. It is an exception. And when it becomes a problem, there are several different ways to deal with it.

        If every time someone talks to a disruptive users, the response is shouted back, then it is useful to have authorities that can hide behind a sham simply to deny the disruptive user someone to shout back at.

        As dws says, if they then decide to shout back at the site, then discussion happens and perhaps improvements are made (in the system, in the minds of those who run it, in who runs it, in the members or membership, whatever).

        I don't believe in applying systems (making things automatic) in cases that still require judgement. I think you'll agree that silencing should not be made automatic. I feel that whether to silence anonymously or non-anonymously should also not be made automatic (by disabling anonymous silencing).

                        - tye

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