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Re: Re: Re: Reputation and Accountability (tye)

by dws (Chancellor)
on Jun 12, 2003 at 20:53 UTC ( #265496=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Re: Reputation and Accountability (tye)
in thread Reputation and Accountability

The issue at hand is that borging is anonymous. No one should wield anonymous power over public conversation.

I disagree. First, borging isn't completely anonymous. There's a relatively small number of "community elders" who have been vested with that power and who have been charged with the responsibility to use that power wisely. From what's been said here, it seems that there's no issue with responsibility in this particular case.

Next, in any civil society, there needs to be some mechanism for enforcing a "time out" when things get out of hand. The benefit of that enforcement coming from "the system" is, as tye has said, that it's harder to pick a fight with the system. The fight gets defused. At most, it gets turned into a meta-argument (like this one). Meta arguments are healthy, if they're undertaken civilly.

Perlmonks remains a remarkably civil place for several reasons, among them being feedback. When somebody comes in here and acts badly, they get feedback, ranging from negative votes, to replies pointing out the error of their behavior, to verbal (CB) reminders, to borging, to banning. Without those mechanisms--particularly without an escalation path that includes temporary CB silencing--I believe this place would be a mess.


Comment on Re: Re: Re: Reputation and Accountability (tye)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Reputation and Accountability (tye)
by chip (Curate) on Jun 12, 2003 at 21:20 UTC
    borging isn't completely anonymous

    It is--to mortals like me. That the members of some cabal (no, not that Cabal) are accountable to each other doesn't make them individually accountable to the rest of us. Individual visibility is precisely my point.

    And if you think I'm arguing against the borging feature, then you have not been paying the slightest bit of attention. Please read carefully what I have actually written, if you care to understand.

        -- Chip Salzenberg, Free-Floating Agent of Chaos

      It is--to mortals like me. That the members of some cabal (no, not that Cabal) are accountable to each other doesn't make them individually accountable to the rest of us. Individual visibility is precisely my point.

      Yes and no. Mostly no, actually. A quick glance at the intersection of other users and power users, for instance, will give you a pretty good idea who it could have been.

      You make a great deal of noise about the lack of accountability, but I'm curious who you think the Authority Figures™ should be accountable to... the stock answer is of course "The Community" , but The Community stopped answering my /msgs a while back, so who? If we assume that the other denizens of the chatterbox are reasonable proxies (as a group) for The Community, then it seems to me that they're perfectly capable, if they disagree with a borging, of saying so without having a specific person to yell at. The only person denied this privilege (albeit temporarily) is the borgee, and that is, in fact, the whole point.

      If borging were a non-public sanction, such that it was impossible to tell if some particular person were being unfairly targetted or if the borging rate had climbed beyond what was considered acceptable by the bystanders, then I could imagine some cause for fuss or even paranoia. Though it'd still be a pretty trivial power to be abusing, IMO. As it stands, I think you're overreaching drastically.



      If God had meant us to fly, he would *never* have given us the railroads.
          --Michael Flanders

        My ideal resolution is to see that every individual has the information required to form an opinion of how other individuals are behaving, be they Power Users or Posing Losers (or both). I have no further desire beyond seeing names -- individual names -- attached to actions. That's all. Really.

            -- Chip Salzenberg, Free-Floating Agent of Chaos

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