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Re: Re: Re: Boycott O'Reilly

by chaoticset (Chaplain)
on Jan 23, 2004 at 02:10 UTC ( #323404=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Re: Boycott O'Reilly
in thread Boycott O'Reilly

Let's compare this philosophy to a guiding principle of mine.

Those with more information are better equipped than those with less information.

You seem to disagree, as if somehow some books should not be published, or should not be available to the public, and that if you had other options than them, you would use them instead, avoid said books. Okay -- you're saying that you'd intentionally remove information that you could use, because you have some sort of ethical problem with...what? Reading it? Other people knowing it?

There's no way for you to control the latter.

Regardless, let's move to another guiding principle of mine.

People, on the whole, left to their own devices, will choose to do constructive things rather than destructive things.
You seem to believe otherwise. You seem to think that one destructive act somehow outweighes thousands of constructive ones. I honestly don't think humankind could get anywhere without creating and producing being a better choice than destroying and nonproduction. We'd be living in caves. We'd be afraid of our shadows, and everyone else.

Which, I suppose, we are to a degree -- but the degree to which we, as a whole, produce and create is greater.

Believing these two things convinces me that there should be books about hackers, books with the word 'hackers' on the cover, etc., just as there should be books about terrorists, books about terrorism, etc. Not because of some notional concept of "harm" or "protection" or because I wish to see society fall -- it's because "harm" is irrelevant, the harm of not being informed is greater than any harm anyone can do me -- it's because "protection" is something I grant a nonsentient being, and I am sentient, and I don't need to be coddled -- it's because society requires information to proceed.

You say this is harmful, and you are, by everything I've ever believed in, wrong. That would be my well-informed opinion, in terms of being well-informed about what I believe.

Information causes action. Action, on the whole, is positive. Tell me why I should want to prevent X good things for less-than-X bad things.



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You are what you think.


Comment on Re: Re: Re: Boycott O'Reilly
Re: Re: Re: Re: Boycott O'Reilly
by Wassercrats on Jan 23, 2004 at 04:28 UTC

    Your argument sounds very philosophical. I hate philosophy. Applying a given set of beliefs to whatever problem comes your way simplifies things, but I prefer custom made problem solving. But it doesn't surprise me to hear a philosophical argument here because I see philosophy as being related to psychology, which I've heard alot of programmers are into. I hate psychology too.

    Information causes action. Action, on the whole, is positive. Tell me why I should want to prevent X good things for less-than-X bad things.

    Since there are no such things as units of goodness or badness, it depends on the quality of the good and bad things, not just the quantity, but generally, you shouldn't want to prevent X good things in order to prevent less-than-X bad things. I'm not certain whether books like the one I'm complaining about would help more good guys than bad, but some forms of helping good guys aren't as important as preventing helping bad guys.

      Applying a given set of beliefs to whatever problem comes your way simplifies things,
      It doesn't simplify anything. It's nice to refer to it as something so simple as "applying a given set of beliefs" but trust me when I tell you that book after book of philosophical what-have-you is not filled with One Right Way to apply a set of beliefs.

      I think the goal of philosophy is a consistency. I think a philosopher would like to look at the activities of the day before them and see a consistent goal emerging -- surpassing 'normal' humanity, ascribing to a percieved God's intended path, etc.

      but I prefer custom made problem solving.
      This isn't saying you have no philosophy. This is saying your philosophy is that you should examine each situation less in terms of 'beliefs' and more in terms of the uniqueness of the situation. It's still a philosophy.
      But it doesn't surprise me to hear a philosophical argument here because I see philosophy as being related to psychology, which I've heard alot of programmers are into. I hate psychology too.
      I cannot imagine why. Programming is psychology for a much less advanced brain. Psychology is programming for a much more advanced computer.
      Since there are no such things as units of goodness or badness, it depends on the quality of the good and bad things, not just the quantity, but generally, you shouldn't want to prevent X good things in order to prevent less-than-X bad things. I'm not certain whether books like the one I'm complaining about would help more good guys than bad,
      Okay -- then the original statement should probably have reflected a lack of sureness. It didn't. You titled it "Boycott O'Reilly" and, as far as I can tell, you're unhappy because the book describes security flaws. Describing security flaws is vital to fixing security flaws, even if it makes you uncomfortable somehow.
      but some forms of helping good guys aren't as important as preventing helping bad guys.
      That is true. "Some good things aren't as important as preventing some bad things." Unfortunately, that wasn't what you described -- you suggested that a book publisher be boycotted because you didn't like how one of their books was written. If you're telling me that I should punish the people who put the Camel, the Ram, etc. on bookshelves because they produced a book that got mixed reviews, then I'm going to think you're missing something, possibly on purpose.


      -----------------------
      You are what you think.

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