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sauoq's scratchpad

by sauoq (Abbot)
on Jun 03, 2004 at 16:33 UTC ( #360256=scratchpad: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

cblogparser for castaway (Thanks!)

#!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; @ARGV = grep { !/^\s*\||\|\s*$/ } @ARGV; # Don't allow pipes. use Getopt::Std; my %opt; getopts('t', \%opt); my $TIMESTAMPS = $opt{ t }; die "Usage: $0 [-t] file ...\n -t Add timestamps.\n" unless @ARGV; require Text::Wrap; while ( my $line = <> ) { $line .= $_ until ($_ = <>) =~ /^\s*\];/; # Append lines until we +find end. $line .= $_; # Append that last line. $line =~ s/^[^[]*//; # Prep for eval'ing. my $aref = eval $line; die $@ if $@; pretty_print_message($_) for (@$aref); } sub pretty_print_message { my $msg = shift; my $txt = $msg->{ text }; my $out = $TIMESTAMPS ? "[$msg->{ time }] " : ''; $txt =~ s/&(lt|gt|amp);/${{lt => '<', gt => '>', amp => '&'}}{$1}/ +g; unless ( $txt =~ s!^/me !! ) { $out .= "<$msg->{ author }> "; } else { $out .= "* $msg->{ author } "; } my $indent = length $out; $out .= $txt; print Text::Wrap::wrap('', ' ' x $indent, $out), "\n"; }

Closure Games

An example of a closure returning a reference so it can sort of be used as an lvalue. (Note that I don't necessarily recommend this technique for anything in particular. No matter what the problem is, it is like there is a better way to do it than like this... :-)

{ my $c = 0; sub counter { $c++; \$c } } print ${counter()}, "\n" for 1..3; ${counter()} = 0; print ${counter()}, "\n" for 1..3; ${counter()} = 99; print ${counter()}, "\n" for 1..3;

And here's an example of generating closures which return refs to their data so that they can be sort of be used as lvalues...

# Use a sub to generate closures to be used as settable counters. sub new_counter { my $c = 0; sub { $c++; \$c } } my $c1 = new_counter; print '$c1: ' . ${$c1->()}, "\n" for 1..3; ${$c1->()} = 0; print '$c1: ' . ${$c1->()}, "\n" for 1..3; ${$c1->()} = 99; print '$c1: ' . ${$c1->()}, "\n" for 1..3; # Slightly less unwieldy syntax... my $c2 = new_counter; print '$c2: ' . ${&$c2}, "\n" for 1..3; ${&$c2} = 0; print '$c2: ' . ${&$c2}, "\n" for 1..3; ${&$c2} = 99; print '$c2: ' . ${&$c2}, "\n" for 1..3;

Make the closure an lvalue anonymous sub and return the scalar rather than a reference to it and you can manufacture settable counters that have an even nicer syntax...

sub new_lvalue_counter { my $c = 0; return sub : lvalue { $c++; $c } } my $c3 = new_lvalue_counter; print &$c3, "\n" for 1..3; &$c3 = 10; print &$c3, "\n" for 1..3;

So. That's not as neat as a straight lvalue sub, but it gives you as many as you want.... Here's another way to get more than one (with all of the neatness of using a single lvalue sub) but with some additional maintenance problems:

{ my @c; sub counter : lvalue { my $i = shift; $c[$i]++; $c[$i] } } print counter(0), "\n" for 1..3; counter(0) = 10; print counter(1), "\n" for 1..3; counter(1) = 100; print counter(0), "\n"; print counter(1), "\n";

The code:

#!/usr/bin/perl -wl use strict; my @good = qw( 0e0 0 +0 -0 1. 0.14 .14 1.24e5 24e5 -24e-5); my @bad = ('', qw( 2.3. 2.3.4 1..2 .1.1 a.1 a1.1 .1a 1.a 1.1a 1a.1 1. +a1)); my $pattern = qr! [+-]? (?: \d*? )? (?: (?<=\d)\.? | \.?(?=\d) ) (?: \d*?)? (?: \d[Ee] (?: [+-]?\d+ ) )? !ox; print 'GOOD Tests'; print /$pattern/ ? ' ': 'no ', "match: '$_'" for @good; print 'BAD Tests'; print /$pattern/ ? ' ': 'no ', "match: '$_'" for @bad;

And the output:

GOOD Tests match: '0e0' match: '0' match: '+0' match: '-0' match: '1.' match: '0.14' match: '.14' match: '1.24e5' match: '24e5' match: '-24e-5' BAD Tests no match: '' match: '2.3.' match: '2.3.4' match: '1..2' match: '.1.1' match: 'a.1' match: 'a1.1' match: '.1a' match: '1.a' match: '1.1a' match: '1a.1' match: '1.a1'

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<S_Shrum> our? never seen that one...Kewl...I'll research and impleme +nt if that does the trick...thanks <submersible_toaster> think of it as our package var , and my lexical + var <submersible_toaster> anyone fighting the good fight with Mail::IMAPCl +ient ? <PodMaster> [Tutorials] * S_Shrum wonders why anyone would buy a submersible toaster? Hmmmm.. +... * kodo thinks about if he ever used our but can't remember a single ca +se <submersible_toaster> [PodMaster] was that directed at me, ? <i>Tutorials</i> <S_Shrum> bo yea! That works! <S_Shrum> makes / our...I use MY all the time...shoulda jus +t guessed <PodMaster> no ~ s_shrum <3dan> [id://105446] is a good place for further reading <sauoq> [submersible_toaster] Better to think of it as "our lexically scoped global variable" <submersible_toaster> but when does it go out of scope ? <graq> Does anyone know any nice examples of modules that use DBI to s +etup database modules for use in CGI scripts? <sauoq> Well, outside of use strict vars, there is really no reason fo +r it... it doesn't exactly go out of scope... It just requires a package name when it isn't in the scope of the our decl. <sauoq> [submersible_toaster]: &lt;code&gt;perl -Mstrict -wle '{our $f +oo=1} prin t $foo'&lt;/code&gt; <sauoq> Then try the same thing, but &lt;code&gt;print $main::foo&lt;/ +code&gt; <sauoq> And if you are starting to wonder what "our" is good for... re +ad [Why is 'our' good?] ... you're in good company. :-) <submersible_toaster> ahHAH! <submersible_toaster> ++[sauoq] thankyou for clearing that up. <submersible_toaster> What is our good for. I could make a recommendat +ion for Mail::IMAPClient but I am yet to determine exactly WTF is going on in there. <merlyn> "our" is a lexical declaration for package variables <merlyn> I talk about that in my alpaca book <theorbtwo> [merlyn], do you come up with any place where our is bette +r then use vars, other then that the syntax is closer to my? <sauoq> all paco book? <merlyn> better in that it can initialize, yes. <sauoq> err [paco]? * theorbtwo notes that alpaca yarn is sooo sooooft. * theorbtwo starts to read the sample chapter, and chokes when the ver +y first paragraph implies that a reference isn't a scalar pr +etty firmly. * 3dan tries to remove the alpaca hairball from [theorbtwo]'s throat <merlyn> where's that? <theorbtwo> Uh, 3ch, in the two introductory paragraphs. (I'd quote, +but I'd just be quoting the whole para anyway.) <Alexander> i cannot remember - can i print an entire array to a file +with just &lt;code&gt;print FILE @array;&lt;/code&gt; --? <sauoq> Well, you say that it isn't a job for one of those three... it +'s a job for a reference. (or similar.) It's obvious to me that you + just dumbed it down a bit. Pedantry isn't always good for learning. <castaway> yes you can <Alexander> :-) <kodo> Alexander: yes but why don't you try it out yourself? <Arguile> "A reference fits wherever a scalar fits. It can go..." Pg.7 + P3 <Alexander> because this is the last thing i need add to the script be +fore it is complete and i can goto bed <merlyn> right. I think I go to great pains to be the opposite of wha +t [theorbtwo] is noting <Arguile> I'd say making that distinction is probably good for a learn +ing book. * theorbtwo shrugs. <merlyn> A reference is not a scalar, but merely fits wherever a scala +r fits. <merlyn> well, almost everywhere. it can't be the key of a hash <theorbtwo> I'd instead say that a reference is a special type of scal +ar. <merlyn> [theorbtwo] - what precisely is your problem? <merlyn> No, it's not a special type of scalar. <sauoq> Well, I do see how it could read that way... Saying a referenc +e can go wherever a scalar goes falls just a tad short of saying "be +cause a reference is in fact a scalar." But I'm sure you say that somewhere later... You do, right? <merlyn> it's not quite a scalar. it's neither a string nor a number +nor undef. <castaway> (neither can some scalars .9 <merlyn> a reference is <i>not</i> a scalar. every. <merlyn> errr "ever" <merlyn> a scalar can be used as a hash key, for example. <merlyn> equating references with scalars is more damaging than useful <theorbtwo> No, a string can be used as a hash key. References can't, because while they are scalars, they aren't strings. <castaway> with binary data? <merlyn> but "a reference fits nearly everywhere a scalar fits" gives +a useful storage model <merlyn> I think you have been misled, [theorbtwo] <theorbtwo> (Trying to use undef as a hash key results in actualy usin +g the empty string, it appears.) <merlyn> i don't know anyone on P5P that would say "a reference <i>is< +/i> a scalar" <sauoq> "A scalar may contain one single value in any of three differe +nt flavors: a number, a string, or a reference." <merlyn> undef as a hash key uses "" instead, yes. <sauoq> Quoting from [perldoc://perldata]... * castaway quotes the Camel on scalars: A scalar always contains a sin +gle value. This may be a number, string, or a reference to anot +her piece of data. <theorbtwo> I simply state the rule as "a hash key is a string, not a scalar", which rules out refs and undefs nicely, and leave +s a clean mental model. * castaway grins at [sauoq] <merlyn> I'm trying to capture the semantics, but perhaps not using th +e terminology that casual usage would lead you to, perhaps. * sauoq notes that's because hash keys are stringified... that happens + with references too. <merlyn> I don't necessarily view the Camel as the final definition of terminology. I use usage on P5P instead. <sauoq> And you can use them as hash keys... you just can't use hash k +eys as references. <theorbtwo> Oh. I use usage here, more or less, but mostly what makes sense to me. <merlyn> in any event, I'm presenting a model for learning. that shou +ld not get in your way... just move along... <theorbtwo> And what produces expectation most in line with what &lt;code&gt;perl&lt;/code&gt; does. <sauoq> Why? Because hash keys always hold "strings." Not numbers, not scalars, not references... strings. * theorbtwo shrugs -- no matter how good the Alpaca was, I wouldn't bu +y it -- it doesn't attempt to teach material not in Camel, whic +h I have, and like. <merlyn> [theorbtwo] - fine, that's not a tutorial book for you. and I + bet you didn't use the llama either. but both of them are useful + for people that are not as smart as you <sauoq> I might have bought it several years ago had it been out then. +.. I think I've probably mastered the material pretty well by now though. :-) <Arguile> I don't equate Alpca (from what I've seen of it) with Camel +at all. Camel is a reference + some explanation. Alpaca == tuto +rial (correct me if I'm wrong [merlyn]). <merlyn> many thousands - no millions, of people have found the llama useful. I suspect most of them will find the alpaca useful t +oo. <merlyn> yes, the camel is a reference book. the llama + alpaca = tuto +rial books <theorbtwo> Sorry, [merlyn]. I don't mean to diss your teaching style +; it's just different then mine. * sauoq has the pink llama on his shelf... It was the first book I bou +ght on perl. And thank you [merlyn] for a gentle introduction... ( +and you're welcome... because I did -purchase- the book. ;-) <merlyn> there's nothing in the llama and alpaca that isn't covered in + the camel - but just in a different way. <sauoq> I have the pink camel on my shelf too. I got that about a week later. <merlyn> and nearly everyone who has learned Perl seems to have learne +d it from the llama. that's cool froeme. <theorbtwo> Noddage, [merlyn]. I wouldn't say that the camel isn't a tutorial, just not a tutorial for beginning programmers. <sauoq> It taught me all I wanted to know about perl4... so thanks for + that too, [merlyn]... and you're welcome again. <Arguile> Pink Camel? <merlyn> so [theorbtwo] - I have no problem with you learning from reference books. just realize that others need more handhold +ing, and there's nothing wrong with that. <theorbtwo> [arguile], the first editions had pink, rather the cyan, covers. <merlyn> no, there's really nothing in the Camel that is a "tutorial" +in the traditional sense. it's merely the manpages republished. more reference than anythign else. <castaway> (Camel++) <merlyn> but for those who want a tutorial, llama + alpaca is definite +ly the track to process. <theorbtwo> [merlyn], I understand that -- it's just that I prefer to +teach things such that I refine, rather then break, my students mental models later. <theorbtwo> Then again, I don't teach much, and never in large groups. <merlyn> [theorbtwo] - someday, you'll notice what I did as a blessing +, not a curse. :) <sauoq> So... then I got the second edition camel... and that was my b +ible while learning about perl's OO brew and all sorts of nifty thi +ngs about perl5... so thank you one last time [merlyn]. (And you'r +e welcome again.) <merlyn> the way to teach "baby perl" is to teach a model that actuall +y has a few holes. that's life. <merlyn> thanks saugo <theorbtwo> Oh, I'm not saying that your books are bad. They're rathe +r good. I just think that they could be better. <theorbtwo> There are very few things I read and say "that couldn't ha +ve been better". <merlyn> I'd challenge you to teach the same level of material in the +same number of pages. seriously. I've spent a lifetime learnign +how to teach this stuff. <Arguile> Hehe. &lt;code&gt;curse( $foo ); # P5 compatible object mode +l (in P6)&lt;/code&gt; <merlyn> so I'll kindly suggest that you refrain from such crap unless you're willing to put yoru money where your mouth is. <theorbtwo> LOL, [Arguile]. <theorbtwo> Hm. Never considered technical writing and teaching as a carreer. And I wasn't calling your work crap by any means +. <merlyn> And I dont' see O'Reilly clamoring to get you to write their +next book. <merlyn> No, I'm calling your claim crap. I think you have no clue he +re. <merlyn> And I'll show you my reviews and royalty checks to prove it. <merlyn> I have credentials. Critical Acclaim. Street Cred. You are + just a guy who seems to always be over your head here on perlmonks +. You have no weight here. <theorbtwo> [merlyn], I have no doubt that your books are popular, tha +t many people like them, and that you're a very good teacher +. <merlyn> so move along, please. your comments are baseless. * sauoq thinks he could do a good job of writing a book. How do you go about doing it and making a living at the same time? * castaway giggles <merlyn> I will certainly listen to any valid criticism. Please forwa +rd that to - I'm curious. <theorbtwo> In fact, I consider the book of yours that I own in hardco +py to be probably the best-written non-fiction book I own. <merlyn> book writing is NEVER about making a living <sauoq> That's what I'm missing... how do I approach a publisher and g +et them to pay my rent and bills for the time it takes me to writ +e a book. I'd happily quit my job and do that... <merlyn> it's only about credentials or collateral. Book writing is n +ever a living <merlyn> [sauog] - if you figure that out, lemme know. :) <theorbtwo> [sauoq], first you give them a finished book. Then, if it +'s really really good, you might have a prayer, possibly, of +that happening the next time. * castaway thinks several fiction authors would argue about that.. <merlyn> right.. SF can be a living. But not techwriting. too small +an audience. <theorbtwo> [castaway], every time I've ever heard a writer write abou +t writing, they've said that it's a horrible way to make a living. <merlyn> I'm an <u>incredibly successful</u> techwriter.... and yet th +e best month I've had in royalties paid about $10K. * sauoq sighs. <merlyn> that may seem huge, but there's been far too many $1K months +as well. <castaway> hmm.. havent looked hard enough then.. I see several that e +njoy it.. (Terry Pratchett for example..) <merlyn> so, back to the issue. [theorbtwo] - if you have legitimate complaints, please email me. Lemme brew on it. But I bet yo +u won't have anything that would have changed the way I did Lla +ma or Alpaca. <theorbtwo> BTW, [merlyn], ever consider putting out a book of collect +ed articles? (Or do you not have rights to do such a thing?) <merlyn> and in fact, I'd bet you are telling me to change things in a + way that I know for sure didn't work in the past. <merlyn> [theorbtwo] - that's in progress. expect such in a year or s +o. <theorbtwo> Cool. I'll quite likely buy such a beast. <castaway> [sauoq] try this: [|breaking in is hard + to do] <merlyn> that's what I and the publisher are hopping <merlyn> (hoping) * kodo likes effective perl programming a lot... <merlyn> we're taking my 166 columns, throwing out the redundant ones, organizing them into topics, then creating a few paragraphs t +o "update" anything that needs such. <merlyn> EPP for Stonehenge is being replaced by Alpaca <sauoq> fwiw, I think you did the right thing in drawing a distinction between references and scalars. I don't think I agree that doi +ng so is more pedantic... but less so. But, I'll reiterate, I think +less pedantic is probably good for a learning book. <merlyn> all I can say is whatever I'm doing in alpaca is nearly essen +tial for learning, even if it breaks models needed later. <merlyn> that's the strategy I'm always willing to take in a tutorial +book * theorbtwo shrugs.</i> [merlyn] is right; he is vastly more qualifie +d then I am to be making assertations like this. <merlyn> I say it on page one of my course materials "we lie from time + to time" <theorbtwo> There's been two kinds of debates/arguments I've had with +you, and this one is the "it's just style" kind. <merlyn> it's because I have to give scaffolding. sometimes, the scaffolding is not the final materials. that's life. <merlyn> yeah, an art call, based on experience. <theorbtwo> (I actualy had substance the other day, on for/foreach terminology, was actualy grounded in a good point, which I should write coherently at some point. (That being that terminology should be easy to use correctly.)) <merlyn> don't knock my art until you have faced thousands of students +. <merlyn> until then, you haven't "earned your licks" enough for me to +pay attention. :) <Alexander> /me.oO(if i were not so overtired, i might get up and danc +e having finshed the deadline coding for the site.) <sauoq> Right. And understandable. <merlyn> in an ideal world, perhaps the teaching would be different. +I live in my world, not that ideal world. <theorbtwo> The scary part is, you meant thousands of students in a la +rge ampitheter, didn't you? <merlyn> I mean everythign from 2 people to 200 people, yes. <theorbtwo> I don't teach large groups, ever. In fact, I don't teach professionaly in any matter. <merlyn> bing! so your comments about "how to teach" are all crap. O +K. :) * sauoq considers it for a moment... online, I've had thousands of students... only dozens in real life... but I've taught a lot +on IRC... nothing structured of course... hrm... maybe I should g +o into teaching. Got an opening on your team [merlyn]? <merlyn> allow me to introduce myself as "Randal the professional teac +her, writer, and tutorial author" then. <Alexander> g'nite everyone (merlyn and orb, dont hurt each other... m +uch) ;-P <theorbtwo> OTOH, I don't ever recall somebody complaignign about my teaching style... including teachers I constantly correcte +d to the point a good argument can be made that I was teaching. <theorbtwo> [alexander], goodnight. <merlyn> [saouq] - I hire only people who are famous. (1) get famous. + (2) I'll notice you. * theorbtwo wonders momentarly if [merlyn] has ever hired somebody oth +er then [merlyn]. <castaway> night alexander <merlyn> [] <theorbtwo> I respect Randal the professional teacher, writer, and tut +orial author. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother trying to disagree + with him. <merlyn> I've had a half dozen instructors working for me, yes. <theorbtwo> wow. <theorbtwo> I always got the impression you were a one-man show. <merlyn> Joseph Hall, Tom Phoenix, Chip Salzenberg, <tt>brian d foy</t +t>, Tad Maclellan <merlyn> you certainly don't visit my website ever then. <merlyn> I also had a few others who tried but washed out during the prelims <sauoq> Tad McClellan is famous? <theorbtwo> I've been there a few times, actualy, but normaly just to +read your articles, which are quite fun, even when I've been ov +er the same ground myself. <Corion> [merlyn]: Does brian d foy insist on monospace for his name? <merlyn> he was answering nearly every other question in comp.lang.perl.misc when I approached him <sauoq> But whatever... if I get famous [merlyn] it'll be too late. Yo +u will have missed your chance. Poof. Gone. <merlyn> [] <Corion> .oO(Getting famous in the Perl community is no problem - gett +ing famous and still being liked in the Perl community is harder +:-)) <merlyn> famous != marketable. I turn famous people into marketing it +ems. <merlyn> if you don't know the difference, you'll never make money. :) * theorbtwo wonders if it'd be <tt>d foy</tt>, <tt>brian</tt>. <merlyn> Stonehenge is a marketing machine. we work hard to brand the brand, and have people call us first. <sauoq> That's not what I need... I need the avenue to get famous. Tim +ing and all, ya know? I missed the perl boat by a couple years.... + that and I took employment in the private sector where I needed to +be careful about my open source involvement at times.-sigh- <merlyn> feel free to try to do the marketing on your own. you'll com +e up short. I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars marketing + the Stonehenge brand. <merlyn> ask Allison Randal about how long it takes to be famous. <theorbtwo> And you do a good job, [merlyn]. If I needed a perl class taught, I'd email you first... and then have no idea where + else to look. <merlyn> I gave her the same challenge I just gave you. WIthin six mo +nths, she pushed herself into the Perl6 committee. And now has a b +ook already available at OSCON. <merlyn> she had asked to work with me. I told her what I just told y +ou. <merlyn> she is clearly famous now. I'd hire her in a second. <merlyn> so don't tell me that you can't be famous within a year or so +. It's been done! <castaway> (who's Allison Randal ?) <merlyn> it's about finding a need within the Perl community, and fill +ing it excellently. then your name gets out there. and that make +s you marketable for Stonehenge. <sauoq> Wait... "You'll come up short?" Heh. That's cute. Well... I su +re am lucky that my future doesn't rely on <em>your</em> faith, aren +'t I? <merlyn> [castaway] - you've not been following perl6 at all, apparent +ly. :) <castaway> Nope, cant say I have * kodo also got no clue about perl6 yet... * theorbtwo wonders momentarly if [tye] or [vroom] is really famous in + the community-at-large, or just here. <merlyn> [vroom] gets street cred for perlmonks, but [tye] hasn't outt +ed himself enough to do so. <theorbtwo> perl6 is fun stuff... half of the time I read somthing of [thedamian]'s, I just go "huh?"... but the "whoh"s are int +ense. <sauoq> Thanks for the link [castaway]. <castaway> but then, I'd been using perl for 2 years, and hadnt heard +of you til I came here, either * theorbtwo nods. <merlyn> in terms of perl6 design, it's Larry, Damian, and Allison. T +hey are The Holy Three. <merlyn> and that's due in part to my urging her to be a famous person +. * djantzen has set his sights on infamy instead. * merlyn sets his sights on blasphemy <castaway> welcome, [sauoq] (some of his others are also not bad.. and + the books anyway ,) <theorbtwo> Odd, it's always looked from here like Allison is one of t +he more minor people -- a lot of Larry, Damian, and Dan (thou +gh he has a slightly different sphere). I suspect Allison just +gets less credit and/or puts out less public emails. <theorbtwo> [castaway], but this site was your first exposure to The Community, wasn't it? <sauoq> Well... there it goes.... you had a chance there. Momentarily. + Now, if I ever talk to you about working for you again... it'll be +you asking me and me saying "no thanks." Then I'll wink and whispe +r, "by the way, I'm bones." <merlyn> never heard of bones. <merlyn> if you had street cred, I'd know you. * castaway nods [theorbtwo] <theorbtwo> [sauoq], can I suggest that picking one name might be a go +od thing in terms of famousness? <theorbtwo> OTOH, if I winked at [merlyn], and whispered "by the way, +I'm theorbtwo", I'd probably get slugged... ;) <sauoq> rollin' bones, jay bones.... talk about street cred... you hav +e <em>no idea.</em> :-) * djantzen can hear [sauoq]'s sigh all the way over here. <merlyn> listen, if you wanna be a fuckhead, and be pseudonymous when +you don't need to be, go ahead. <theorbtwo> (Yes, I have read your name space, [sauoq], I do know that [sauoq] is a 180deg rotation of bones -- but people who kn +ow who sauoq is won't realize they know bones, and vice-versa +.) <sauoq> [theorbtwo] Nah... ubergeeks always have at least 3 names... they're kinda like cats. Ever read T.S.? <theorbtwo> Works well enough for [chromatic]. <merlyn> you earn no respect with me hiding behind a pretend name. I +am very clearly who I am, and it works for me. <sauoq> Now I'm a fuckhead? <merlyn> and [chromatic] is clearly chromatic everywhere. not his rea +l name anywhere. <theorbtwo> [sauoq], can't say I have. (And James Mastros, theorb, an +d theorbtwo, pleased to meet you, [sauoq], bones, and whateveryourrealnamehappenstobe.) * kodo lols <castaway> (3 names? 1 name + 1 nick is enough for me..) <theorbtwo> Uh... exactly the reason for my advice [merlyn]. You're clearly Randal Schwartz, wherever you go, even here, where + it says [merlyn]. Similarly, chromatic is always chromatic, +even more so. <merlyn> so [sauoq] - I have no respect for you, because you are prete +nding to be someone whom you arent'. <merlyn> even if you are someone famous, you're being a fuckhead. * sauoq was being obtuse, [castaway]... but it's a good rule of thumb +just the same. <theorbtwo> Makes little difference if the name you use was given to y +ou by your parents. Indeed, people will remember <tt>chromatic< +tt> or <tt>brian d foy</tt> on the cover of a book. <merlyn> I don't appreciate people who lie to me. <theorbtwo> </tt></tt> D'oh! Easy to miss a slash. <merlyn> </tt> <sauoq> Well, I often think the same of you. You're entitled, of cours +e. <theorbtwo> Interesting, [merlyn] -- exactly my earlier point -- I don +'t like tutorials that lie to me. <Corion> ... &lt;code&gt;code be gone&lt;/code&gt; * sauoq never lied once. <merlyn> All tutorials lie. Get over it. <sauoq> To you that is... I'm not a saint. <merlyn> if they didn't lie, they'd be reference books. :) * kodo lols a bit more <theorbtwo> I am over it, [merlyn]. <sauoq> I do think its funny that you just have no idea whether I'm fa +mous or not... I can see the gears churning... "well, he's not a newbie... do I know this guy? Have I met him?" <merlyn> well, if you're sherm pendley, you certainly pick a weird way + to presence yourself in the world. <merlyn> and if that's also an alias, I'm even more disgusted with you +. :) <sauoq> You just need to get over yourself. Street cred... pshaw. "fam +ous" pbbbt. <theorbtwo> [merlyn], you're both famous and rather respected. If I h +ad to choose one, I'd rather be respected. <merlyn> you've certainly earned a few points in the "ASSHOLE" categor +y. <sauoq> What kind of name is "sherm pendley"? * theorbtwo sighs, and would also rather have a full nights sleep, but + has to get up in a maximum of 4.5 hours... goodnight, all. <merlyn> that's "camelbones" - since you also call yourself "bones", I suspect a link. <sauoq> Cool. I thought we playing HORSE... but I guess I did sink a c +ouple three pointers. <merlyn> but you know, I just plain don't care. I'm not into puzzles. + If you'd rather be hidden behind a puzzle, you're a fucking nobo +dy. go away. * castaway gives [theorbtwo] a birthday kiss and sends him to bed.. * merlyn heads off to bed <theorbtwo> Goodnight, [merlyn]. <sauoq> Never heard of "camelbones". I used to smoke camels... years a +go. The filtered ones... the unfiltered made even me hack... <castaway> night merlyn.. * djantzen wonders how one's street cred is affected by successfully goading someone of [merlyn]'s stature into flinging slurs.. +. <theorbtwo> camels, or kamels, [sauoq]? <kodo> everyone's a nobody finally. doesn't mean anything to be famous + or not. * sauoq smiles. <sauoq> camels. * castaway grins to herself. * theorbtwo suspects [merlyn] would be a little more respected and a l +ittle less famous if he were to swear less when confronted with critisisim...and wonders which he'd prefer. <sauoq> And I kept it in bounds the whole time too, [djantzen]... wonderous, huh? <robobunny> i certainly hope watching this discussion was not someone' +s first exposure to perlmonks <theorbtwo> [robobunny], my first exposure to PM was the stink around [merlyn]'s name being taken off of Camel3. * Corion has this surefire plan to get famous and disrespected in the +core Perl community, while at the same time earning some money ... + But he is too chicken ... <sauoq> The way I hear it, he didn't even contribute that much to the +2nd ed. <kodo> I really have lots of respect from merlyn when it comes to codi +ng and his books. But tbh until I saw him talking here and on some nodes I thought he'd be a much more gentle person...with more w +isdom not caring about beeing "famous" or not... <robobunny> in a way, talking smack about your perl street cred is pre +tty hilarious if you think about it <true> anybody know how to grant a user an email address while not all +owing ftp on linux? * djantzen practices his not famous signature. <merlyn> [sauoq] - the only people who say that are the people who wer +en't there. <theorbtwo> Anyway, goodnight, really. <merlyn> and now I suspect you may actually be Tom Christiansen. How interesting. <merlyn> that would nearly explain your previous behavior here. <castaway> true, theres an /etc/ftpusers for those allowed to do ftp.. <kodo> true: don't understand your question...why shouldn't that work? * sauoq would rather be a plain old guy... working a plain old job... raising his beautiful little daughter... than a famous geek wi +th street cred and huge head. <robobunny> ftp servers typically don't allow access if your shell is +not listed in /etc/shells <merlyn> [kodo] - I'm responsible for everythign I say, but I'd apprec +iate concrete feedback instead of abstract handwaving, thank you. <sauoq> I thought you'd still be listening. <robobunny> /etc/ftpusers is actually people who are not allow to use +ftp <merlyn> Whoa. So it's really Gnat. How cool. <kodo> merlyn: sure, that's fine. I respect your point of views just t +hink you should be a bit more open and don't take things that seriou +s. :-) <merlyn> Again, putting on a clown face and walking in to here doesn't impress me. <castaway> oops.. well, right thought .. thanks robobunny <merlyn> There are very few things that I take seriously. Perhaps you don't agree, but allow me that indulgeence. * sauoq wonders how many other people he will guess that I am... <merlyn> spreading crap amongst the community like bad security advice + or bad code, I take seriouslyl. <theorbtwo> [merlyn], I just /msg'd a reminder to myself to write a meditation on terminology, I welcome your thoughts on it w +hen I finish it (which, at the rate I'm going on my mental todo +will be a while.) <true> so i add users to this file. and restart?? <sauoq> You were right the first time, dude... I'm "a nobody"... what +are you worried about? What are all these shadows jumping up and attacking you? * merlyn would like to wring [sauoq]'s neck, and now realizes this is exactly the behavior that [sauoq] is trying to elicit. How d +roll. <robobunny> you shouldn't have to restart the ftp daemon <merlyn> OK, nothing more from me regarding the troll. /me moves on <sauoq> I'm not trying to elicit any behavior, [merlyn]. <sauoq> But, so nice of you to start spelling the name right. <theorbtwo> OK, really, really, really time for bed. <sauoq> And, calling me a troll here is sort of joke. I think there's enough evidence that I come to help out. <kodo> now fucking leave orb or I'll tell castaway to bring you to bed + :-) <true> thanks monks, works great. my domain control panel thanks you. * castaway would love to .. <theorbtwo> Yes, [kodo|sir]! Not that she hasn't been trying, sir! * castaway .oO( gone .. ) <djantzen> [sauoq] is not and never has been a troll [merlyn].
Thanks, djantzen. :-)
... * Corion is sufficiently convinved that [sauoq] is not gnat... ... * virtualsue never understood why merlyn thought sauoq was gnat to beg +in with * castaway doesnt understand merlyn, period. <kodo> as i said I respect him but also don't understand why he is so "serious" in a weird way sometimes * kodo goes out for a walk to relax a bit <sauoq> [Corion] Sshh... don't tell anyone else I'm not gnat... I woul +dn't want that to get around. ;-) * sauoq chuckles.

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[marto]: oddly the last time I was there I saw a zeppelin in flight for the first time
[Corion]: ambrus: I don't know how far the budget estimate has been overrun yet
[Corion]: marto: Heh ;) No, you were likely at Tegel or Schönefeld, the new one ("BER") will be somewhat outside of Berlin ;)
[marto]: Corion Schoenfeld, but my friend has been telling me about this new airport for about 7-8 years now :P
[marto]: I doubt it even exists as a building site :P
[ambrus]: Corion: does building airports "somewhat outside of" a city ever work? cities always grow around the airport quickly, because it's practical to be close to it, and after that, people start to complain that the airplanes land so close to their house and sh
[ambrus]: ould keep down the noise

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