Beefy Boxes and Bandwidth Generously Provided by pair Networks
Syntactic Confectionery Delight
 
PerlMonks  

Re^3: How should Perlmonks deal with Plagiarism?

by BrowserUk (Pope)
on Oct 08, 2006 at 20:19 UTC ( #577028=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^2: How should Perlmonks deal with Plagiarism?
in thread How should Perlmonks deal with Plagiarism?

I think sight of what "plagerism" means is being lost here.

If

Teachers will get upset if you do *not* plagiarize.

This implies that the pupil is expected to quote from one or more, known (how else would the teacher know that the work was not original?), authoratative sources.

Quoting from authoratative sources does not fall under the definition of plagerism, the essence of which can be summed up by:

Taking, using, and passing off as your own, the ideas or words or work of another.

If the teacher is expecting it to happen, then when it does, they will know it has, because they will recognise the source. There is no deception or misrepresentation involved and therefore the term plagerism does not apply. Even if the reference is uncited, how can it be plagerism if the teacher is expecting it?


Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
Lingua non convalesco, consenesco et abolesco. -- Rule 1 has a caveat! -- Who broke the cabal?
"Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.


Comment on Re^3: How should Perlmonks deal with Plagiarism?
Re^4: How should Perlmonks deal with Plagiarism?
by jacques (Priest) on Oct 09, 2006 at 01:08 UTC
    I am no longer talking about anything that has happened on PerlMonks. I will leave that for others to discuss. But in some cultures, the most important thing is getting the answer right. Whether your work/idea is original is secondary. For example, sometimes students will copy each other's homework. Here in the States, this is a big offense and the students could get in trouble (and rightfully so, since these students are breaking the rules), but in other places, it is not. What is interesting is that it goes well beyond "homework problems". What happens when some company steals your technological innovation and pass it off as thier own? I can think of one country in particuar that is dealing with serious patent issues.

    Since we are getting into a subject that is beyond what has occurred, I will stop here. You can private message me if you want to continue the conversation. What amazes me is that this chap actually cared enough about xp to go through all that trouble.

      I am no longer talking about anything that has happened on PerlMonks.

      Neither was I. I referred explicitely and exclusively to the example in your post.

      For example, sometimes students will copy each other's homework

      Your earlier post said

      Teachers will get upset if you do *not* plagiarize.

      Are you suggesting that if the student *doesn't* copy someone elses homework they would be penalised? Wouldn't that lead to the ludicrous situation whereby the (one) student(s) that produced the work (was)were penalised, whilst everyone else that copied them got a good grade?

      I think the point is that your suggestion that "foreigners are taught to cheat" is based, at best, on misinformation. There are societies and cultures where collaborative effort between students in the completion of coursework is allowed and encouraged; but in those places, coursework usually plays no role in the final grading for the course, which is based entirely upon end-of-course examinations or similar.

      What is interesting is that it goes well beyond "homework problems". What happens when some company steals your technological innovation and pass it off as their own? I can think of one country in particular that is dealing with serious patent issues.

      Again, you are drifting away from the subject (plagiarism). Ripping off movies, music & games (tapes, cds, dvds); designer label cloths, accessories, perfumes; software; car, motor cycles and aircraft spares; and almost any other "proprietary" product you care to mention is just as rife in the West as anywhere else on earth. It tends to be less in-your-face in the West than elsewhere, as the laws against exist and are actively patrolled, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

      Nor does it mean that it is condoned or societally acceptable in those other cultures. However, there are countries and cultures where the idea of restricting the use of knowledge, to the "owners" of that knowledge; and so ensuring premium prices for the products derived from that knowledge is, or has formally been an anathema. In communist, and communistic societies, knowledge was (and some places is) seen as being for the common good. And it is an inherent aim of those systems to utilise all knowledge as widely as possible to reduce the overall cost of the benefits derived from it, to the advantage of all society. The people own everything in equal measure.

      Of course, history has shown that it doesn't appear to work too well in practice, but there are plenty of bits of Western culture that despite being enshrined in law, don't work too well either.

      It's interesting that the "artists" producing mass producible works like books, films, music etc. are currently able to make large fortunes from their endeavours and Western law enshrines, pursues and prosecutes their right to do so, often at the expense of the public purse. And many people here seem (at least publicly) to support this.

      And yet, many of those same people are in favour of their own mass producible, "works of art" (code), being donated to the public good.


      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      Lingua non convalesco, consenesco et abolesco. -- Rule 1 has a caveat! -- Who broke the cabal?
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.
        I think the point is that your suggestion that "foreigners are taught to cheat" is based, at best, on misinformation.

        That is not my quote. And I find your assertion downright offensive. My point is that plagiarism, like many things, is viewed differently by different cultures. There are cultural dimensions to plagiarism. It is easy to define plagiarism, but it becomes a much more complex issue when dealing with different cultural worldviews. In my original post, I was simply agreeing with someone who made the same point. You can disagree with these statements, but don't put words in my mouth, buddy.

        It's interesting that the "artists" producing mass producible works like books, films, music etc. are currently able to make large fortunes from their endeavours and Western law enshrines, pursues and prosecutes their right to do so, often at the expense of the public purse. And many people here seem (at least publicly) to support this.

        And yet, many of those same people are in favour of their own mass producible, "works of art" (code), being donated to the public good.

        I'm not realy sure of your point, but I did want to mention that the law allows the "Artist" to define the rights for that work and then enforces those rights. It neither forces them to sell it or give it away, instead it allows them to choose and makes the public follow that choice. "pursues and prosecutes their right to do so, often at the expense of the public purse" that is one of the best things ever! We have decided that the good of the people isn't as important as the rights of the few, I'm pretty sure there is a famous quote along those lines somewhere. I know that sounds realy weird, but the point is that the government shouldn't be able to take away my rights just because it thinks it should (not that this always works, nothing is perfect after all) and so my rights are more important than whatever the government deems as best for the public. I'm not a politician or a scholar so i'm probably wrong on some points, but you get the gist of it I hope.


        ___________
        Eric Hodges

Log In?
Username:
Password:

What's my password?
Create A New User
Node Status?
node history
Node Type: note [id://577028]
help
Chatterbox?
and the web crawler heard nothing...

How do I use this? | Other CB clients
Other Users?
Others avoiding work at the Monastery: (6)
As of 2014-08-27 23:50 GMT
Sections?
Information?
Find Nodes?
Leftovers?
    Voting Booth?

    The best computer themed movie is:











    Results (253 votes), past polls