Forthcoming attraction - "Positive fast, negative slow"?

[Moron]

Background: Last week in the CB there was a discussion about how one or two people are complaining that they are being persecuted by a particular user who downvotes them as soon as they post. When investigated no evidence in voting patterns could be found to support the idea of such "persuction" downvoting.

I should add by the way, that my own experience is a positive one insofar as the initial downvote is more often than not followed by many more positive votes in compensation, i.e. the complaint didn't come from me!

Well, it's only a theory of mine, but it occurred to me that if we follow Edward de Bono's criticisms of logical thinking (see "Six Thinking Hats" ca. 1986) we see that the "devil's advocate" type of thinking cited as being the most common, is going to result in coming up with a negative conclusion more quickly, whereas (unless of course the reader is in a state of euphoria) it takes longer to analyse a post thoroughly enough to draw a positive conclusion. Taking the argument to its extreme, one can imagine a reader disliking something in the first sentence and downvoting it, whereas a meticulous analysis would involve reading the post thoroughly, checking facts, thinking back to personal experience, generating ideas yourself and looking for pros as well as cons etc. etc. - it might on occasion be necessary to do more such analysis on a post before it is possible to reach a positive conclusion about it. So if this theory is correct, the phantom persecuter is nothing more than our inclination to think negatively faster than we can think positively. In fact every year I generate a motto for myself to remind me of a change in thinking I need to apply. In 1997 my motto for the year was "Positive fast, negative slow" in an effort to remind myself to reverse this only-too-natural thinking behaviour in myself - I later learnt it was more complex than that of course but it proved to be a useful prop at the time.

Or should I have been reading Woody Allen instead? (who once wrote "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!" (from "God and other plays")

[naikonta]

I don't think this node warrants downvotes just because it mentions XP, upvoting, and downvoting. For me, this node talks about generic thing, not specifically about XP system. It's discussing a premise from a book, about how people generally think towards something they face. That people tend to think negatively faster than think positively. It's not by coincidence, IMO, that "think positively" or "positive thinking" or "think the positive side" are adviced again and again. It just happens that he takes XP system, specially downvoting, as the case of his premises.

I personally agree about what Moron talks about. I just see it right away in the replies to the OP. And to my experience, it takes more time so I can think positvely about something. I also learn hard to force myself not to react quickly, because if I did so, many chances that I would react negatively.

Of course, people reading the node are free to react for whatever they feel at the moment they read the node, either fully or just by skim reading. Afterall, the title suggests just the opposite of that "negative quick, positive slow" symptomwhat de Bono presents. Whether people are going to apply it on the XP system here or in their real life, it's again a matter of personal choice. I do agree, however, that discussing XP system is, most of the time, near to useless. I've seen such nodes gained many negative reps. This one, I believe, doesn't talk about XP system as the core content.

Update: I never read de Bono's book as referred, I don't know exactly what it talks about.

[perllove]

I agree with you, the author's prose is matured and he talks about human nature, its just like any other meditation to me.

[rir]

A post here doesn't call for action or vesting on the reader's part, so it falls outside the sort of decision making that Bono's work addresses.

Given that upvoting is much more common than downvoting, I don't think that more serious thought will decrease the downvote percentage.

I don't believe that we "think negatively faster", rather the status quo and the separate interests of the participants are often not explicitly considered. Start-ups are often exhilarating because there is no status quo worth having and the participants, to a greater extent, are self-selected and unified behind the group's mission.

Be well,
rir

[tye]

Previously noted, Re^2: Looking for "random upvote" script (humans), FYI.

[blazar]

Background: Last week in the CB there was a discussion about how one or two people are complaining that they are being persecuted by a particular user who downvotes them as soon as they post. When investigated no evidence in voting patterns could be found to support the idea of such "persuction" downvoting.

Since this "kinda thing" comes out quite often, and occasionally I think I've been a "victim" too, albeit on a very sparse basis... I wonder, from the technological POV if and how one could set up an heuristic automated control for such a behaviour.

I should add by the way, that my own experience is a positive one insofar as the initial downvote is more often than not followed by many more positive votes in compensation, i.e. the complaint didn't come from me!

Indeed, as another interesting sociotechnological observation... I think that an initial downvote on a node, on the long run can benefit it, if it's a good node: as I wrote elsewhere I often start my visists to the Monastery from Worst Nodes, and upvote articles I find to be unjustly there. I bet others do too.

[samizdat]

I'll upvote the node for two reasons: first, that the first responder (derby) said he downvoted it, and second, because it speaks well to a topic I'm passionate about: thinking and learning patterns. Given that the curtrent XP status of the node is heavily positive, I think this supports Moron's 'personal experience' assertion. :-)

de Bono is appropriate here because the XP system does influence a decision: that of the next reader coming along who looks at Best Nodes and Worst Nodes. I disagree with those who say we shouldn't discuss the XP system as an important part of Perl Monks. I respect their reasoning, that _Perl_ is more important, but I think the XP system actually does have a lot to do with how this place survives as a self-sustaining and self-policing community. Moron's post is entirely appropriate and pertinent here in PM Discussion. I, too, often ruminate over the PM community's longevity while chewing my cud. I agree with later posters that there are very few abberations and deliberate attacks, although I suspect that Kevin_Raymer might have cause for complaint. ;-]

For those who haven't been exposed to Edward de Bono, here is the place to start. I wish more kids were handed 'Six Hats' before they left third grade. We wouldn't need to fret about them being 'left behind', no matter what 'disadvantages' they started with. They'd be reading Tom Paine and Frederic Bastiat before they were ten...

[derby]

A fine node, well thought out, well researched and well written ... but I down-voted anyways ... to much time and effort wasted about pm's silly little voting/experience system.

[halley]

I'll abstain from voting this time, for much the same reasons, but honestly, I downvote the majority of XP-handwringing nodes I see. It's just not as important as Perl discussions in the grand scheme of things.