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Re^2: Tiny Frameworks

by goibhniu (Hermit)
on Oct 17, 2007 at 04:45 UTC ( #645359=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re: Tiny Frameworks
in thread Tiny Frameworks

Boy, I'm coming late to this party. Sorry about that. The following is asked in the interest of understanding your (and by extrapolation Tye's) points. It may seem that I'm supporting Ovid's point, but really the most accurate statement of my position is "confused".

If in the examples in the OP, the data about the Creature package were extracted to, say, XML, could you then call this a "framework for declarative creation of classes"? It seems to me that this constitutes the details to be filled in by the application programmer. I haven't used Hibernate, but wouldn't that be just one level down from what Hibernate does (declarative objects, plus how they relate, whereas this would be just declarative objects)? Does it matter whether those details are provided by the application programmer as XML (like in my hypothetical) or as structured code (like the original example)?

I guess part of Ovid's point was to explore the grey areas in the use of the term and now I feel caught up in that gery area. Again, I ask for the sake of clarification. I don't have skin in the game either way.

Goibhniu stops previewing, takes a deep breath and pushes create . . .

I humbly seek wisdom.

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Re^3: Tiny Frameworks
by BrowserUk (Pope) on Oct 17, 2007 at 07:32 UTC

    Hmm. From my perspective this is all about terminology. Let's try an analogy:

    When they built The Swiss Re Tower, some company was charged with the manufacture of the 5500 triangular and diamond-shaped glass panels that form the outer cladding. As these panels vary in size for each of the 40 floors, there was no doubt some mechanism for inputing the required sizes for each of the aluminium extrusions that make up the panels to the (probably digitally controlled) cutting machines.

    In terms of the manufacture of the panels, that mechanism may have been seen as some kind of a "framework". But in terms of the construction of the building, the term "framework" was probably reserved for the steel 'diagrid' that forms the overall shape and load-bearing structure for the building.

    There are already many terms for tools that are used to construct classes: Library; toolkit; Meta class; Specification language; Class Factory; etc. All of which make more or less sense depending upon the philosophy behind them; the interface they present; the way they operate; and the way they are intended to be used. Do a CPAN search: Class::* and read the first few lines of each module (say the first couple of hundred) for examples of all these and more.

    There seems little purpose in taking a term 'framework', that already has a fairly intuative interpretation, and qualifying it with 'tiny', in order to bend it to fit a conceptual space that is already heavily overloaded with terminology.

    Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
    "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
    In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

      Thanks. That was more helpful to me than the "frameworks call you; you call libraries" distinction.

      Cool building, BTW.

      I humbly seek wisdom.

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