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Re: Re: Newbie madness, experienced ambiguity.

by Chady (Priest)
on Mar 17, 2001 at 21:30 UTC ( #65160=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re: Newbie madness, experienced ambiguity.
in thread Newbie madness, experienced ambiguity.

I remember reading something that resembles to this elsewhere

Anyway.. I totally agree with you, but I think that bladx's point is that newbies come here often to ask questions and aren't usually interested in signing up... so they ask a quick question... this problem was solved (somehow) when Vroom added the line : "If you're new here please read Perl Monks Site FAQ" to the top of the SOPW page when you are not logged in... and many other similar notes.

so I think that the prob is solved bladx.. you cannot expect to have someone here to guide the new comers more than that... and luckily, there is someone here to take care of the mess that happens.

Chady |
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Re: Re: Re: Newbie madness, experienced ambiguity.
by PsychoSpunk (Hermit) on Mar 20, 2001 at 23:17 UTC
    Chady, your interpretation of bladx's post is quite interesting.

    ... newbies come here often to ask questions and aren't usually interested in signing up

    I think that if that is the case, then we end up playing our part as the Wizard, while wide-eyed Dorothy newbies come and simply expect the easy answer on how to get home.

    My point is that I don't want to help newbies if they have no intention on being a part of the community. This may sound harsh, but what if Ovid or chromatic decided that they just needed to use this site when they had a quick one-off question? What if merlyn decided that this was just another leech of his time? The thing is that everyone involved has to contribute. I think that is why bladx seems to think those of us who would rather just give a terse answer to newbies are being rude. It's because you can't get something for nothing in a gift culture. Everyone has to give and everyone gets what they need. One-off newbies are treated as such because there is such a wealth of information if they'd only look at the map. And the map is posted at nearly every major street corner.


      I found that a very good way to put things.

      In a gift culture people participate by giving in one form or another. It is fun to answer questions. It is pleasant to get questions answered. It is satisfying both to go from asking to answering and doubly so to help others do likewise.

      But people who essentially say, Gimme! aren't as fun. If you clearly do not appreciate that you are asking for my time and energy, then I am not going to want to give you any. By default I assume that people do understand that this is a gift culture, I don't assume that people are thoughtless. But if they truly are, then no, I do not have to answer their questions. I am not paid, I have no obligation to answer questions...

        It's a funny thing, this gift culture we are in. Newbies don't usually have that much to give except their questions. Early on I was often told to just go and RTFM or STFW or do some simple googling. I do those things now, but early on I needed someone to say, "RTFM! And here's how you do it...." Yeah, I've seen plenty of posts that looked like someone had a homework assignment and needed someone else to do it for them, but there are some newbies (even comp geek newbies) who really do want to walk the path, they just need someone to teach them how to read the map.

        Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.

        -Howard Aiken
        I concur wholeheartedly, I'm a newbie to the language for the most part, and I find if I am patient, explain what I need help with, I will get the help I need. I can't stand when you ask an honest question and get a backhanded smart ass remark in return. It's a waste of time on both party's hands. I think we need to think in that higher form, and try and help each other out as a community as much as possible.

        Ergo!!! Vis a Vis!!! Concordidly!!! Mr. Timberlake. I apologize. I don't usually like to use my big voice.
        Will Ferrill as the Architect from the Matrix 2:Reloaded

      Bonjour Monkies ;-)

      tonight, while poppin' about the net lookin' for answers to my Q's, i ended up here once again - and this time, happening across these postings. I've been comin' here stealing your knowledge for quite awhile, but never bothered to join ('til now).

      i cannot say, i'm an expert at perl - but i've had quite some dealings w/computers for many yrs and often found myself, as that person, who your friends go to for techie solutions.

      i can sympathize w/everything everyone has been saying here. Computers is a really large subject and to outsiders (and even some of us insiders) can seem overwhelming. Most people do not have a clue, where even to go - let alone ~how~ to ask a question and it can be quite frustrating for both them (the wounded) and you (the doctor) to fix.

      that being said........ :-P

      there are a lot of people out there, who seem to believe, that they are entitled to help - "just 'cuz". They'd prefer you did the work for them and sometimes, won't even thank you for the minutes or hours or more, which you've spent trying to define and solve their problem.

      i've noticed in myself and my relationships w/people in these circumstances, that often this not only breeds a dependency (rather than them trying to learn - they just ask you), but it often denegrates into them expecting you to help... One can come to feel like their being used...

      well, you all here have helped more individuals than you know. PerlMonks has been written up in most of the perl-books i have and often cited at many other websites. There are many lurkers popping in and out (like me), who have found your discussions helpful and insightful through our own learning of language -

      so on behalf of all those anonymous monks out there - and for myself, as well, i'm just here to say ~

      thank you :-)

      tc, wolfi

        thought i was logged in...

        ~insert look of embarrassment~

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