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Re^2: Modern Perl and the Future of Perl

by chromatic (Archbishop)
on Dec 20, 2007 at 21:42 UTC ( #658288=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Modern Perl and the Future of Perl
in thread Modern Perl and the Future of Perl

And while I hate to say it, the "Perl 6/Parrot is vaporware" thing is a problem.

I think petdance was on the right track when he encouraged more people to add their journals to places like Technorati to improve the amount of Perl information disseminated, and Perl Buzz is a good thing.

We release a new version of Parrot every month. Getting other people to talk about that would be nice.

Patrick and I talked a bit yesterday about how to bundle up the nascent perl6 compiler in Parrot into something installable and standalone, and I think we have a good solution there that we can implement in a couple of afternoons, when we both get some time off.

I know lots of people who are not Ovid and perrin and stvn will read this and never say anything, but what you can do to help is talk to your friends and colleagues about all of the cool stuff that we (collectively, because that includes you) are doing. If you talk about it online in your journals and weblogs or other forae, so much the better.


Comment on Re^2: Modern Perl and the Future of Perl
Re^3: Modern Perl and the Future of Perl
by Cop on Dec 21, 2007 at 01:08 UTC

    Your logic is weak. Okay there is a release of parrot every month, but that provides no prove that perl 6 is not a vaporware. How many more years you have to fight others with words instead of codes - a final release of perl 6 if there ever will be one?

      Okay there is a release of parrot every month, but that provides no prove that perl 6 is not a vaporware.

      Parrot releases have included working versions of Perl 6 under development for years. I've had working Perl 6 code for years, in public, running on versions of Perl 6 developed in public and released in public.

      How many more years you have to fight others with words instead of codes - a final release of perl 6 if there ever will be one?

      There will be a release of Perl 6.0.0 when the people working on it consider it sufficiently featureful and stable that it deserves that number. The date of that announcement depends on several factors, most of them dealing with "When sufficient people have done sufficient work."

      This is how community-developed software works. You've had the ability to download the code for Parrot since 2001 and the code for Pugs since 2005. You can check on their progress at any time you want. We develop everything in public, and we've even published the minutes of the Perl 6 design meetings publicly for at least a year. We don't have anything to hide.

      I'd like to see Perl 6.0.0 released very soon, but in the past several months we've made solid progress on it -- despite our resource constraints -- every week, and almost every day in the past month.

      Again, we have nothing to hide.

      Feel free to call that vaporware if you like, but I'm proud of what we've done with as few resources as we have, and I'm really not sure what else I can do but point out that we've had working code for a long time.

      If slapping the "final" tag on something makes it non-vaporware in your eyes, then I believe that's a ridiculous and meaningless metric. There hasn't been a final release of Perl 5 yet -- or Perl 1. The only software that meets your standard is TeX, and people still patch that too.

        I will simply pick one of your many points to respond: "This is how community-developed software works"

        I repectfully disagree. There are quite a few community developed softwares out there and are successful. Even Perl 5 is much more successful than 6.

        Perl 6's problems have nothing to do with the community, but lack of management and control. Larry Wall has allowed himself to be Gobachev (sorry I cannot spell that loser's name) instead of Putin, if you get what I am saying.

        "If slapping the \"final\" tag on something makes it non-vaporware in your eyes, then I believe that's a ridiculous and meaningless metric."

        For that, I do give larry credit, and I can see that he is wiser than his captains - if he actually sees you guys as his captains.

        Look at this from a differet angle: the fact that 6.0.0 is not out there clearly says how bad the situation is - even the most ridical ones do not dare to claim perl 6 as non-vaporware, at least not so far. Sure they claimed with words, but not codes.

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