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Re^7: No votes (apologist)

by tye (Sage)
on Apr 30, 2009 at 06:56 UTC ( #761049=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re^6: No votes
in thread No votes

We all know that the message from Co-Rion said that it was from Co-Rion and that manoj_speed was able to send a private message to chromatic (but not when the problem was pointed out and feedback was requested, only after days passed and, lacking a response, a privilege was removed). So I don't see how a quirky interface can be blamed here (unless you think using a hyphen in a private /msg is somehow cast as "difficult" by the interface). The first reply here even said that the OP should reply to Co-Rion.

Luckily, the evidence is quite obvious and the excuses completely unconvincing. Had facial expressions been involved here then the excuses would have been met with frank rolling of the eyes and that would've been the end of it in most cases. But on the internet, everybody can fib with a straight face while they can't see how sincere your disbelief is in response.

No, I will not discuss what the evidence was, etc. I wouldn't discuss it at all had manoj_speed not chosen to make the problem public (and, no, I don't see any evidence that making it public was anything other than a dodge). And I still wouldn't have discussed it in public had I not felt that this particular third-party justification needed to be "put down" as not fitting the facts.

Yes, the interface isn't completely intuitive but the interface was successfully used and there was no requirement or even request for "/msg gods" to be used. So that is a lousy justification that doesn't deserve to be propped up.

- tye        

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Re^8: No votes (not an apologist)
by Argel (Prior) on Apr 30, 2009 at 20:48 UTC
    My post was talking about new Monks and The Monastery in more general terms. I never said that manoj_speed didn't know how to /msg a user. My point is that experienced Monks often take for granted how confusing things can be here at first (and even more so for those with less experience with the English language).

    I am willing to take it on blind faith that the evidence supports one person voting with two different accounts, etc. However, whether the messages sent to those accounts were clear, concise, and easy to understand is another matter. Co-Rion's first post in this thread is not a good indicator -- exactly what is "The reason is jonam resp. ..." supposed to mean??

    I decided to comment because experienced Monks are taking the learning curve at The Monastery for granted in this thread. The actions or inactions of manoj_speed are for the most part irrelevant to the point I was making.

    Oh, and calling me an "apologist" via the Title is quite beneath you.

    Elda Taluta; Sarks Sark; Ark Arks

      Perhaps "apologist" means something different to you than it does to me. Your words seem to imply that you consider the term an insult. None of the definitions I browsed quite match how I'm familiar with the word being used, but then none of them seem to imply that the term is derogatory either.

      Your reply makes it clear that you weren't trying to make excuses for the OP. Prior to that, it sounded to me like that was exactly what you were doing. Surely, due to the context of your words and you not clearly reframing your remarks... which actually talk very specifically about manoj_speed, Co-Rion, and "/msg gods". So "talking in general terms" still isn't evident to me upon re-reading.

      But, yes, I probably misused the word "apologist" and I apologize for insulting you1 and attest that this was not my intent. And I now believe that you were not making excuses. Thank you for clarifying that.

      1 I presume, but admit that I am guessing as to what precisely it "being beneath me" was meant to imply, so I apologize again in case "insulting you" was not what I did.

      So it seems that we aren't actually in disagreement (other than my unfortunate misuse of "apologist" -- sorry, again). Or, to be clearer, I am not in disagreement with you. Thanks.

      - tye        

        You mentioned context, and my OP was certainly written within the context of this thread. Monks were mentioning things like "/mgs gods", "a reply to Co-rion would have sufficed", and basically saying that accessing one's inbox is easy to do. It's not hard to take the general case (the first part of the paragraph in my OP) and then use this thread as an example of how the general case might apply. Although with that said I will admit that combining the general case and the example into one paragraph had the unintended consequence of blurring the line between the two.

        Regarding "apologist", dictionaries cover definitions, not connotations. If you search for "apologist" on Google News it should quickly become apparent that it is almost always used in a negative way (i.e. with negative connotations).

        Update: And yes, it does seem that we are in agreement. Which makes a lot more sense to me as we tend to agree on issues like this more than disagree. It's threads like these that actually make me appreciate The Monastery. I mean, if discussions like this, patching up misunderstandings, etc. cannot happen then it's not really much of a community.

        Elda Taluta; Sarks Sark; Ark Arks

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