Re^2: Alternative to bytes::length()

[creamygoodness]

in reply to Re: Alternative to bytes::length()
in thread Alternative to bytes::length()

Or maybe the character length should be stored in string variables?

I think the length in characters might be cached using MAGIC -- I know some UTF-8 stuff is.

What's the problem with the current solution?

There was just a post to p5p from someone who wanted to terminate the bytes pragma with extreme prejudice. I wanted to mention this use case.

[ikegami]

Do you have an example of this magic?

That would be an argument for creating a new function, not for keeping bytes.

[ikegami]

Actually, simply calling length on a scalar with UTF8=1 adds the magic.

>perl -MDevel::Peek -e"Dump $_=chr(0x2660)x100; length $_; Dump $_"
SV = PV(0x2379ec) at 0x1845eec
  REFCNT = 1
  FLAGS = (POK,pPOK,UTF8)
  PV = 0x184c5ec "..."\0 [UTF8 "..."]
  CUR = 300
  LEN = 304
SV = PVMG(0x18242cc) at 0x1845eec
  REFCNT = 1
  FLAGS = (SMG,POK,pPOK,UTF8)
  IV = 0
  NV = 0
  PV = 0x184c5ec "..."\0 [UTF8 "..."]
  CUR = 300
  LEN = 304
  MAGIC = 0x1824e64
    MG_VIRTUAL = &PL_vtbl_utf8
    MG_TYPE = PERL_MAGIC_utf8(w)
    MG_LEN = 100         <---------- char length

It's a pity that actions such as chop, appending a UTF8=0 string, etc void the count instead of updating it.

Note that $_ eq '' doesn't add the magic, so not only is it faster, it uses less memory.

[creamygoodness]

Looks like you found the caching mechanism. From perlguts:

  w  PERL_MAGIC_utf8           vtbl_utf8       UTF-8 length+offset cac
+he

As for keeping bytes... meh, my attachment to the bytes pragma extended only to that use case, as the efficiency of CORE::length() with SVf_UTF8 scalars is a bummer. I'm not even going to bother posting to p5p now that my concern has been addressed another way.

[assemble]

Why would they eliminate the bytes pragma? What about those of us who aren't always manipulating character data and actually do care about the bytes themselves?

[ikegami]

Strings can contain bytes. You don't have to do anything special to work with bytes. use bytes; has nothing to do with manipulating bytes.

If you need to manipulate the internal string format to optimize or to work with some buggy XS,

You want utf8::upgrade or utf8::downgrade.

If you need you need to encode to UTF-8 or decode from UTF-8,

You want utf8::encode, Encode::encode, utf8::decode or Encode::decode.

The person probably wants to eliminate it because of that very misconception you expressed. But don't worry, if anything is ever done, it would still be available on CPAN.

[assemble]

I'm talking more about situations where I'm manipulating binary data, and I don't want Perl even looking at the data and trying to guess what it is.

Instead of going through every single record in the file and unpacking the whole thing, it is often more efficient to use substr to get the few bytes i actually care about, and work with those. It would be similar to working with an actual character array in C.

Reading through bytes gives me the impression that Perl will try to figure out what kind of string I've got based on what's in it & where it came from unless I tell it otherwise.