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Re^6: The current state of Perl6

by Anonymous Monk
on Apr 19, 2010 at 14:49 UTC ( #835503=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^5: The current state of Perl6
in thread The current state of Perl6

Did you notice that yourself and I, we both like to be anonymous. It is because the reaction to this kind of topic in any Perl community is nearing some sort of flamewar or in any case something of big proportions.

This is not supposed to happen normally, because you just come with an honest question but people keep on giving dishonest answers, or politically correct answers such as depends on your definition of "production-ready" or lame stuff like for most definitions of "production-ready".

That's really dishonest and it annoys me a lot and I'm sure it annoys you too.

I do appreciate the fact that you are honest Anonymous Monk :)


Comment on Re^6: The current state of Perl6
Re^7: The current state of Perl6
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 19, 2010 at 15:57 UTC
    I agree with this reply, I took time and emailed the group who supports perl6 and received a political answer. I am firm believer that when programmers are forced to responded politically about when something will be completed. The project most likely will never be done who simply doesn't have good direction. This has been well over ten years in the making and every other month someone on the team has a personal issue or the dog is sick pushing back the project. It doesnt take 30 days to state something will or will not be delayed.
Re^7: The current state of Perl6
by Your Mother (Canon) on Apr 19, 2010 at 16:39 UTC

    Well, it annoys me when one insists that another must make a judgement call for one. It's worse than dishonest. It's abdication.

    Perl 6 is obviously not ready for what 99% of shops would call production. On the other hand, it's an extremely interesting language that can do a lot already and if I were doing a start-up with at least one really smart hacker, I might just base the code on it at this point to get ahead of the curve. Otherwise, it might be nice to use for internal, non-critical tools just to get the exposure, chops, and start giving feedback, test, and bug reports so it can be ready for prime time sooner.

      the start-up idea sounds reasonable, but how would Perl6 put you ahead of the curve ?

      start giving feedback, test, and bug reports so it can be ready for prime time sooner
      this is interesting. but because there only so many(few) active Perl6 people how will your bug reports and tests help ? maybe they have other priorities than what you think is prioritary and they will focus on those while implementing or fixing bugs ?

        The Perl 6 effort is very well organized at this point and doing regular releases etc. I don't think they have a problem with too much feedback, but too little. Though I may be projecting a bit here. Most of us love feedback and help getting good tests into a project.

        I see Perl 6 as an extremely interesting, potential killer-app-language. Just having Moose makes Perl, to me, better than Ruby and Python. The Class::MOP-ish piece of Perl 6 is just a small slice of what's coming. As a language it could hit the sweet spot between a ton of previous design concerns, failings, successes in many languages. It could be the only high level language anyone would want to use five years from now.

        It could also flop for any or all of the reasons detractors and critics cite. I'm impressed with it and recent dev efforts, however, and I see its realized success increasing. It's at the tipping point for me where I'd like to start rewriting some selected modules of my own in it. No tuits, as usual, but I'm certainly getting more interested in trying/participating.

        Also, viva Perl 5! I love Perl 5 and am also impressed and happy with some of the new philosophical changes in its care and feeding.

        Isn't it awesome to be able to be here? To have a stable, lovely, actively developed language that's so great in addition to an experimental, advanced outgrowth of it?

        (update s/kill/killer/)

Re^7: The current state of Perl6
by CountZero (Bishop) on Apr 19, 2010 at 17:55 UTC
    I do take offence of being accused as having given a dishonest answer.

    In another day and age and if you were not hiding behind your anonymous mask, we would have met at dawn on a field at the edge of the town and we would have settled this slight to my honour in a way as befits gentlemen.

    CountZero

    A program should be light and agile, its subroutines connected like a string of pearls. The spirit and intent of the program should be retained throughout. There should be neither too little or too much, neither needless loops nor useless variables, neither lack of structure nor overwhelming rigidity." - The Tao of Programming, 4.1 - Geoffrey James

Re^7: The current state of Perl6
by educated_foo (Vicar) on Apr 20, 2010 at 03:31 UTC
    Too many people have invested too much reputation, potential book sales, and sense of self-worth in Parrot and Perl 6 for any kind of reasonable discussion to take place. My guess is that the whole farce will die eventually, and either Perl's practical nature will reassert itself, or Perl will fade into obscurity.

    EDIT: Wow, it really hurts le karma to criticize le chromatic...

      Well the fading is happening for years now. People only leave in a state of denial that its not. That is because some people love Perl so much they hate to hear about its slow death. But you need to pragmatic and realize that there is a problem.
        This is true
        they hate to hear about its slow death
        That is fine, we are in no hurry!

        Jokes aside, we have been hearing this "Perl is dying" song now for so long --always from people totally ignorant of the matter at hand-- that even they should start to think that perhaps there is no truth in their predictions?

        CountZero

        A program should be light and agile, its subroutines connected like a string of pearls. The spirit and intent of the program should be retained throughout. There should be neither too little or too much, neither needless loops nor useless variables, neither lack of structure nor overwhelming rigidity." - The Tao of Programming, 4.1 - Geoffrey James

      Too many people have invested too much ... for any kind of reasonable discussion to take place.

      Do you really expect to have a reasonable discussion with people to whom you ascribe of base financial motives, hostile intent to take over communities, crippling inabilities to finish projects, socially inept and almost criminal dishonesties?

      I've been working on Parrot for eight years and Perl 6 for seven. Of course I care about them. You don't have to like it and you certainly don't have to care, but you spend an awful lot of time complaining about me and how I choose to spend my time and speculating about why. Maybe we'd have a reasonable discussion if you asked me why I do this sometime and treated me like a reasonable human being with a complex and rich set of motivations, rather than some mustache-twirling villain who cackles as he plots with a bunch of other ignorant, inept conspirators to destroy Perl 5, somehow.

      Oh, and I patched the Perl 5 documentation today in between making Parrot and Rakudo a little faster. You're welcome. This one's on the house.

        The problem I have with how you spend your time is that it makes so much noise per unit of useful work:
        Oh, and I patched the Perl 5 documentation today...
        Here, have a cookie. Meanwhile, the people who make Perl worth using have been applying several patches per day without any blog noise.
        I'm with educated_foo on this one, I too think you talk too much and accomplish too little. And 7 years of Perl 6 development is a bit exhaggerated, after all you have exactly 65 commits , but your contributions lie more in your interminable blog posts about how awesome of an optimization you've been able to hack together.
      Too many people have invested too much reputation, potential book sales, and sense of self-worth in Parrot and Perl 6 for any kind of reasonable discussion to take place.

      In retrospect, I think you were and continue to be correct. My apologies.

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