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Re^8: The current state of Perl6

by chromatic (Archbishop)
on Apr 20, 2010 at 08:19 UTC ( #835714=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^7: The current state of Perl6
in thread The current state of Perl6

Too many people have invested too much ... for any kind of reasonable discussion to take place.

Do you really expect to have a reasonable discussion with people to whom you ascribe of base financial motives, hostile intent to take over communities, crippling inabilities to finish projects, socially inept and almost criminal dishonesties?

I've been working on Parrot for eight years and Perl 6 for seven. Of course I care about them. You don't have to like it and you certainly don't have to care, but you spend an awful lot of time complaining about me and how I choose to spend my time and speculating about why. Maybe we'd have a reasonable discussion if you asked me why I do this sometime and treated me like a reasonable human being with a complex and rich set of motivations, rather than some mustache-twirling villain who cackles as he plots with a bunch of other ignorant, inept conspirators to destroy Perl 5, somehow.

Oh, and I patched the Perl 5 documentation today in between making Parrot and Rakudo a little faster. You're welcome. This one's on the house.


Comment on Re^8: The current state of Perl6
Re^9: The current state of Perl6
by educated_foo (Vicar) on Apr 20, 2010 at 13:14 UTC
    The problem I have with how you spend your time is that it makes so much noise per unit of useful work:
    Oh, and I patched the Perl 5 documentation today...
    Here, have a cookie. Meanwhile, the people who make Perl worth using have been applying several patches per day without any blog noise.

      It both fascinates and baffles me that you seem to believe that it is your place to assess the validity of how people spend their time on projects. Between this and dumping on the idea of improving documentation, it's like you fancy yourself a self-appointed supervisor of Perl projects, and you think everyone must do only those things you consider valid.

      What is it that gives you this idea?

      And to the others reading this thread, let me make this clear: educated_foo's tactics don't get anything useful done.

      xoxo,
      Andy

        Pot,
        It both fascinates and baffles me that you seem to believe that it is your place to assess the validity of how people spend their time
        meet kettle:
        And to the others reading this thread, let me make this clear: educated_foo's tactics don't get anything useful done.
        I "fancy myself" someone who has an opinion about what makes Perl useful, and how various actions make it more or less useful. You and Chromatic happen to have a different opinion. Do and say whatever you want, and I'll continue to speak up when I think that what you're doing is pointless or counterproductive.
      The problem I have with how you spend your time is that it makes so much noise per unit of useful work....

      Good to know. How many commits do I have to make or modules to write or patches to apply or questions to answer before I can write a blog post? A book? A comment on a web site?

      Also, can you give me a concrete definition of "useful" work? I'd hate to waste my time on something that doesn't help you out right now, and then slip up and post a link on identi.ca.

        no, listen,don't exhaggerate again please.

        please keep code/talk near 2/1, kthx

        let's make the following analogy. let's say that code is the real axis, and talky-talk-talk is the imaginary axis. keep it real :)
        Anonymous Monk has done a decent job of answering without suffering random morons' down-votes. You can write whatever you want, whenever you want -- who am I to tell you what you can or can't do? But how does your ratio of contributions to blog noise compare to that of Nicholas Clark, H. Merijn Brand, Raphael Garcia-Suarez, etc.? Those people are actual contributors.

        PS -- WTF is identi.ca, and why should I care?

      You are so right, how dare chromatic spend his free time the way he wants to? And write about something that he finds interesting in public! And he expresses his own opinion, not yours, the shameless man! I bet he uses strict in his PERL scripts too!

      You are fighting the fight of the truly just here, do not give up! The time you spend writing offensive nonsense helps Perl 5 immensely! Keep on doing it and you will save Perl 5, and people will continue to write buggy little admin scripts like the ones you prefer for all time!
Re^9: The current state of Perl6
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 20, 2010 at 15:35 UTC
    I'm with educated_foo on this one, I too think you talk too much and accomplish too little. And 7 years of Perl 6 development is a bit exhaggerated, after all you have exactly 65 commits , but your contributions lie more in your interminable blog posts about how awesome of an optimization you've been able to hack together.
      And Anonymous Monk has ZERO commits on any project.

      I think that settles the issue.

      CountZero

      A program should be light and agile, its subroutines connected like a string of pearls. The spirit and intent of the program should be retained throughout. There should be neither too little or too much, neither needless loops nor useless variables, neither lack of structure nor overwhelming rigidity." - The Tao of Programming, 4.1 - Geoffrey James

        Ad hominem never do, CountZero
      And 7 years of Perl 6 development is a bit exhaggerated, after all you have exactly 65 commits....

      Yes, I have 65 commits to Rakudo. I have some 2200 commits to Parrot as well (in 5.21 years, according to CIA.vc), and ~330 weekly summaries of design meetings.

      Maybe I have accomplished too little. Maybe if I pushed my volunteer efforts more, I could have more than 1.19 commits per day for the past 5.21 years (CIA.vc's stats don't go back to the start of Parrot). Somehow I doubt that would satisfy you, though.

      There's (nearly) no such thing as "too much talking".

      Projects needs contributors to be successful, and contributors learn about projects by hearing somebody talk about them, more often than not.

      To stay on the topic of Perl 6, have you heard about the compilers called elf and mildew? Most people haven't heard about them. That's because the developers preferred to code, and didn't talk much about them outside of #perl6.

      Let me tell you what happend to elf: its development stalled, because the main author was frustrated about not receiving any contributions.

      Mildew is still being developed, but even I (who spends typically more than 3 hours a day reading #perl6, the mailing lists and blogs) don't really know what the current state is, what features are implemented, and if it's usable for any practical purpose.

      So we need people who talk. We even need them if they don't contribute a single line of code (and chromatic has made significant code contributions, without which Rakudo wouldn't be anywhere near its current state).

      We need people who talk, blog, write books, speak at conferences, talk to perl monger groups, talk to non-perl developers... we need all publicity we can get.

        A lot of people feel very passionately about Perl 6, but the 'Release date' problems kind of really make it difficult for them justify Perl 6 among common masses. I and you may understand but not all.

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