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Someone take control of Magnet.

by EvanCarroll (Chaplain)
on Aug 06, 2010 at 17:28 UTC ( #853445=perlquestion: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??
EvanCarroll has asked for the wisdom of the Perl Monks concerning the following question:

I'm having a really big problem making productive contributions, help me.

I initially wrote a feature request for Catalyst::Plugin::Params::Nested. It was rudely disregarded three hours later with a blanket statement requesting a patch, and tests. I did this. It took almost a week without response for me to get the patch accepted. I had to cross post to the mailing list to get action. And, all this time I had my module on github waiting without any review .

This week, again I started with a feature request. No response, so I wrote the patch, added the tests, and fixed the pod.

Alas, my issue is with the community gatekeepers. Today, I was able to connect to IRC - I was unbanned and un-klinned - I /join irc.perl.org#catalyst, and instantly I find this

11:22 [perl] -!- You were killed by apeiron [apeiron@shadow.cat] [(and + stay dead.)] [Path: ] 11:22 [perl] -!- ERROR Closing Link: 64.200.109.13 (Killed (apeiron (a +nd stay dead.)))

I want to take this opportunity to point fingers at Matthew Trout. This guy is a despot. I'm not going to dance around the issue here. The people that are holding this ban in #perl, and irc.perl.org, are using nothing but coercion on ops. Aperion is employed by Matt. I would challenge anyone to speak to Aperion. I don't even know that guy. I don't think I've ever talked to him -- yet he mirrors Matt's actions entirely. Ask him about me, someone should dig into his reasoning. I would request that some people turn their attention to community moderation. Matt trash talks my modules and my code incessantly behind my back. He can't speak to me with a civil tone. I haven't spoke to the guy in years but I still have some mighty refreshing logs from those days.

I'm just seriously asking people weight his control and influence. When I want to contribute but I'm klinned from irc.perl.org, and #perl on irc.freenode.net you can just about expect me to fork. And, when I fork out of necessity I don't want to hear any crap about not having tried. I tried. I even got a list with four ops on freenode that agree with me. Matt is abusing his power, and his emotions don't cloud his reason -- his very personality is totally devoid of it to begin with. He simply makes for a very poor authority.

[12:58] mst &#9474; Phurl: yeah, do note that the author of +that module is banned from, well, everywhere [12:58] mst &#9474; Phurl: the guy who wrote ::ASP_NET [12:58] Phurl &#9474; what module? the asp one? [12:58] Phurl &#9474; it sux [12:58] mst &#9474; right [12:59] mst &#9474; he's a known troll [12:59] Phurl &#9474; god [12:59] Phurl &#9474; even the synopsis is bad >_< oh man, harsh. [13:00] mst &#9474; please don't think anything produced by +that fucktarded sack of shit is "normal" Moose code :)
Here he does it again, #perl Oct 6, 2010
20:46 < mst> fdaemoins: do NOT use nextgen.pm 20:46 < fdaemoins> why is that? 20:47 < mst> fdaemoins: because the author couldn't find his arse with + both hands 20:47 < mst> fdaemoins: nextgen is bsaically "Modern::Perl done very b +adly" 20:47 < fdaemoins> mst: that seems crude, care to elaborate the proble +m with the /code/, or are you suggesting we should judge the tools we + use by the authors that write them? 20:48 < fdaemoins> because I hear you're a pretty fucking big arse hol +e too. 20:48 < fdaemoins> I'm sure the author would gladly address your conce +rns. 20:49 < mst> I judge the tools by their likely future stability 20:49 < mst> since Evan is known for breaking shit with no notice, and + nextgen's enforcing of 'use Moose' onto every package is insane anyw +ay, I wouldn't go within a mile of it for production code 20:49 < fdaemoins> it's on git hub, you can fork it.. 20:50 < mst> I don't want to fork it. I want to use something written +by a competent programmer and community member in the first place. 20:50 < mst> use Modern::Perl and/or Moose and/or MooseX::Declare norm +ally 20:50 < fdaemoins> No. 20:51 < fdaemoins> Don't tell me what to do just because you hate auth +or... If you were capable of having this conversation in a sane fashi +on, you probably wouldn't have banned him from #perl to end this deba +te before it starts.


Evan Carroll
The most respected person in the whole perl community.
www.evancarroll.com

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Re: Someone take control of Magnet.
by moritz (Cardinal) on Aug 06, 2010 at 18:38 UTC

    Sorry, I don't believe that what you wrote is the whole truth.

    I've dealt with Matt before, and I found him to be quite reasonable - as long as I've been reasonable too. I can't believe he banned you without good reason, especially judging your history of not-very-productive posts on this site, to say the least.

    If you talk about your ban from magnet, please be so kind to tell the full story.

    And I somehow can't believe you expect people to simply forget the first part of the story, whatever it is.

    Perl 6 - links to (nearly) everything that is Perl 6.
Re: Someone take control of Magnet.
by ysth (Canon) on Aug 06, 2010 at 18:38 UTC
    Without regard to the rest of this, I don't see "rudely disregarded" there or see that you have any reason for complaining that it took a week to get a feature added. I think you need to adjust your expectations; people usually want to have some control over the code they release, and even reviewing someone else's patch and putting out a new release takes time. It's even reasonable for that time to be in months, not days or weeks.

    If you need a fix earlier, use a patched version. If you want to make it available for others, publish your patch or a distroprefs.

    --
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      My expectation wasn't that it gets patched in a week. It was just that the positive feedback response time be relative to that of the negative feedback. If you have the time to follow rt on your iphone and respond SEND PATCH AND TESTS, then I assume you have the time to follow rt on your iphone and say "PATCH RECEIVED WILL REVIEW". I patched blindly, I wouldn't even normally do that. I didn't submit the feature request without a patch because I wasn't willing to do it. I submitted a feature request without a patch because I was looking for feedback and I'm klined from irc.perl.org. If you don't want all of my patches leading to forks into a subclass like ::ButMaintained, then I humbly submit that you need to give fair access to the same communications medium that the rest get.

      Now, again I'm waiting for feedback on a different Catalyst/Moose patch, and again I'm getting fed up with not being allowed entry into irc. And, again I feel powerless without forking. I can have Catalyst::Plugin::Static::Easy up and ready to go in 5 minutes., less time then I spent writing this post. It is as if my preferred method of communication has been blocked by a spiteful moderator, and now I'm forced to play ball by the rules of the spiteful moderator or fork at the expensive of being perceived as non-cooperative.



      Evan Carroll
      The most respected person in the whole perl community.
      www.evancarroll.com

        I can't imagine that complaining about someone in an unrelated public forum is a productive way to resolve any personal disagreements -- nor is threatening to upload a passive-aggressive fork "Same as the original BUT MAINTAINED!"

        Why do you expect that to help?

Re: Someone take control of Magnet.
by MidLifeXis (Prior) on Aug 06, 2010 at 18:43 UTC

    First RT: brief because it was posted from a mobile device. After submitting patch, test case, etc, it was accepted, patched, released, and thanked. Volunteers and all of that.

    Second RT: I see no link to the patches mentioned in the RT. Perhaps linking them to the RT might get a response. (3 days, really?).

    Take a step back, read your post, look at your own self-elevated position (signature, for example), and remember that this is free support. You aren't paying for rapid turnaround.

    --MidLifeXis

Re: Someone take control of Magnet.
by Anonymous Monk on Aug 07, 2010 at 08:58 UTC
    Without taking sides in this argument (not interested in the details), if irc.perl.org has channels for reporting bugs (and appears to be), STOP BANNING BUG REPORTERS (not interested in your reasons).

      As far as I know, there has been a cleanup of the ircops of magnet in the sense of banning repeat offenders/trolls from that irc network in an effort to make (for example) #perl a nice, welcoming community. I've listened to reports telling that they have succeeded.

      I think the ircops would potentially need to re-evaluate whether they care about bug reports for a module via irc more than about exercising their right over access to the network.

      RT appears to work for the distribution in question; there's no alternate preferred ticket channel marked, and RT has resolved bugs for the distro.

Re: Someone take control of Magnet.
by DrHyde (Prior) on Aug 09, 2010 at 10:08 UTC
    Man, it took a whole six days for someone to have the time to review and apply your patch. You'd better not try to contribute to any of my modules, cos I sometimes take *months* to get round to even acknowledging requests, let alone applying patches!
      Make that "years" :) I got a response to one of my RT tickets after 3 years IIRC. However, if the bug/patch is crucial, I don't care whether the issue is fixed or not and just fork it (as long as the license is ok) or use another one if available.
      the patch is *still not applied*


      Evan Carroll
      The most respected person in the whole perl community.
      www.evancarroll.com

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