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Re^2: Blocking users

by Old_Gray_Bear (Bishop)
on Jul 20, 2011 at 17:51 UTC ( #915695=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Blocking users
in thread Blocking users

First off -- Thank You!!!!

Every group needs a 'Coventry' to send the bad-actors to, so they can act up all they want and not annoy the Adults. It is good to have this tool available.

Secondly, I am of mixed emotions about blocking Logicus/Simon completely. I understand the reasoning that made you create this tool, but.

The three days ago, for the first time in my years in the monastery, I /ignore'd someone in the CB. After a reading couple of Logicus's early nodes and responses to the comments, I put Him on the mental "skip this twit" list and haven't bothered reading anything else He authored. I skip Him in the responses as well, unless reading a non-Logicus comment make me go 'What DID he say?!'

If We just 'Ignore the Troll Under the Blanket', Logicus will either get bored and take his marbles and go elsewhere; or he may grow out of this phase and become a productive member of Our Community.

And, if we totally suppress Him, we expose ourselves to a potentially very bad problem.

The Old Timers will (most of them, anyway) will have invoked Coventry against Logicus; thus the New Comers, not knowing about Coventry, will get the full 'benefit' of Logicus -- with out any counter balancing commentary from the likes of Corion or MidLifeXis and others.

If the first thing an Initiate sees is Logicus' drivel unanswered by a reasonable voice, we will lose the Good Ones and re-enforce bad behavior on the Ones who stay. We can't afford to let His drivel go unanswered. We only get once chance to make a good first impression.

We are something not unlike a debating society here, asking questions and challenging answers, to reach the Truth (version 6.1, release on Whitsunday, up coming). For this to work, we do have to put up with the occasional Fool; they eventually figure things out. (I do wish WasserKratz were still around. though. I'd pay good money to watch the two of them mix it up....)

Complete masking Logicus is so tempting, but also something that I'd have to think long and hard about. People like that will feel 'marginalized' or 'discriminated against' and the drop of a semi-colon. People like that get noisy in public. People like that go 'postal'. (Although, from personal experience, working in a mail center is a lot less mind-numbing boring than working on an industrial assembly line.)

Right now, we know what he is saying and writing about the Monastery, about Perl, about the World in General. If we completely Coventry him, we won't know what He said until way after the damage is done. I think we want our Problem Children to be publicly visible so we can correct any impression that "the Perl Monks Monastery is composed of Whack-Jobs like that Logicus bloke."

Invisible people are dangerous people.

----
I Go Back to Sleep, Now.

OGB


Comment on Re^2: Blocking users
Re^3: Blocking users
by MidLifeXis (Prior) on Jul 20, 2011 at 18:35 UTC

    I assume that your post is "in general" and not directed toward me specifically. I do agree with your point about wanting to see the behavior in order to provide a response if warranted. As such, I don't ever see myself using this set of CSS.

    That being said, however, I can see it being useful in certain situations, and as some may want the solitude or a reprieve, I provided the information.

    On a somewhat similar topic, I wonder if it would make sense to make the class that identifies the "owner" of a set of data consistent. Currently I have found three similar class names, and am guessing that there may be a couple more.

    --MidLifeXis

Re^3: Blocking users
by Argel (Prior) on Jul 20, 2011 at 19:10 UTC
    On the contrary, people responding to a troll are just as much a part of the problem as the troll is!

    As I indicated in Do Not Feed the Trolls!!!, responding to a troll is feeding it the attention it needs. Ignore the troll, and the fun goes away. Starving a troll is one of the most effective ways to get rid of it.

    Updates: Some of you may also find tye's post about the difference between a flamer and a troll enlightening. It's very good and I encourage everyone to read it. Here's an excerpt that seems relevant to the current situation:

    And if you are trying to only respond to a troll's reasonable postings [you are] encouraging more trolling behavior [by] giving them one more type of bait to drag around waiting for the next gullible fish.

    Elda Taluta; Sarks Sark; Ark Arks
    My deviantART gallery

      Is every post from this point on by a particular user to be ignored, even if there is a complete turn-around in behavior? That seems to be the suggestion being made. "Discipline" without the potential of rewarding good behavior seems to me to be vindictive and at odds with a monastic ethos of self improvement.

      I would agree that responding to obviously trollish posts is counterproductive and probably even detrimental to the overall health of the monastery, but I would also suggest that a 100% blackout is as well.

      --MidLifeXis

        I updated my post a few times, so you probably missed the link and except from tye's post that I just added. If you read those it should be clear that a blackout is the only option. How else do you deal with a troll? Lock the account? He can just create a new one or post anonymously. Blocking an IP address or a range of IP addresses is also easy get around these days thanks to other proxy servers out there. And we risk affecting innocent bystanders with that approach.

        So, I'm sorry, but he made the choice to troll. And considering how disruptive trolls are and how hard they are to defeat by any other measure the only realistic option we have is to ignore the troll.

        Your concern is admirable, but also naive and misplaced. And if he wants to start behaving like a mature adult then he can make a fresh start with a new account.

        Elda Taluta; Sarks Sark; Ark Arks
        My deviantART gallery

        For anyone who promoted "hellban" or "invisban", see Anonymous Monk. For anyone who promoted actually banning not something called "banning" that doesn't actually ban, see "the internet" (and Anonymous Monk and Create a new user). And/or see your brain (that is, use it).

        Using deception to combat annoyance is a mistake. It makes your site and network look like garbage; fake random errors and dial-up load speeds. A user who has been accidentally or wrongfully punished cannot know what's going on and has no recourse or process of appeal. Anti-transparency; essentially lies. Terrible, juvenile choices.

Re^3: Blocking users (Adopting Pet Rocks)
by luis.roca (Deacon) on Jul 20, 2011 at 19:55 UTC

    Though I disagree with it, I can respect the concerted effort by several members to encourage this person into becoming a part of the community.

    I would love to see the same effort made for a few of the new visitors who stop by each week and make an imperfect post. The same effort that has been shown by a few to work with this person in the CB would be great to see extended to other new visitors unsure of how to ask a question and/or with an imperfect grasp of English. In the time our shiny new toy has been here there have been people who have posted, been blown off and faded away.

    Once in a while this gets discussed on it's own and some people make a better effort to give newbies the benefit of the doubt. Some don't and honestly that's fine (I've been guilty of doing both). What I don't find to be fine is the significant knowledge that has been monopolized when spending half of that on just two or three others would (IMO) have been a better contribution to the community.

    If the effort can be made for someone who has (again IMO) done so little to garner good will here after a few hundred posts, can't it also be made for visitors (even if they are unprepared) on their first few posts?


    "...the adversities born of well-placed thoughts should be considered mercies rather than misfortunes." Don Quixote

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