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Re^17: aXML doesn't compile

by Logicus
on Nov 03, 2011 at 15:05 UTC ( #935683=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^16: aXML doesn't compile
in thread Thanks to Ikegami, Chromatic & Corion

No because that would be absurd?

Why don't you give me an example of how you want to use it, then I will see about making it accessible in the manner your after.


Comment on Re^17: aXML doesn't compile
Re^18: aXML doesn't compile
by ikegami (Pope) on Nov 03, 2011 at 17:57 UTC

    No because that would be absurd?

    Yes, but this is you we're talking about.

    Here's where you should have explained what you did mean...

    Why don't you give me an example of how you want to use it, then I will see about making it accessible in the manner your after.

    Huh? (Speaking of absurdity...) Why change anything? Why don't *you* give an example of how to use it.

      But I have given you it, what you have there is an exact copy of what I had here yesterday.

      Look, why don't you just follow the instructions given, and then when you see that it's working you can proceed from that point making it do what ever it is that you want it to do.

      At least that way you will be able to examine the dynamic of how it currently works. Maybe you would want to make it do something completely different or use it in conjunction with a bunch of completely different modules, I don't know.

      This is what you get when you force an ameture like me to write everything myself whilst saying you won't believe a word I say until I prove to you it works. I've gone as far as I can pulling this thing together, and what I have now is fast, stable, works and is going to be the basis for all my sites very soon including PerlNights. I'm sorry if it doesn't meet up with some criteria which you, the aloof all knowing Perl master, have in mind. I'm not clairvoyant. I don't know how you write Perl or expect things to work, if I did then I wouldn't of found it such a huge struggle to express the concept to this forum in the first place!

      Someone pointed out a while ago that I've missed out on a whole load of stuff that's happened in the last 10 years. Sure I can see that, heck I never even used CGI.pm, because by the time I had heard of it, I already had already written an early version of aXML by referring to out of date sites like Tizag.com. Infact Tizag was my first port of call for information on Perl for a long time and was all I needed because I'm quite good at solving problems myself.

      And that's another reason why I don't have any standing on this site; I didn't need to ask many questions here, and infact by the time I arrived here, 4 years ago, aXML was already on it's 3rd version. I've never been able to explain clearly what it's about because I don't have much common ground to explain it in terms of, and all the docs about modern perl things seem to be explained in terms of other perl things which I also don't know anything about.

      All I know is that I have this system here which allows me do build very complex systems like the one I sent you, in very short lengths of time, and that there doesn't seem to be any other system like it out there. I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours solving problems with it and making it do everything I want for my sites.

      In truth I'm an aXML programmer, not a Perl Programmer, I've put myself through this, and it's all my fault for not buying a good book on Perl at the start. But having said that I also would not abandon aXML for all the tea in china. And you can either assume that's because I'm stupid, ignorant and it sucks, or you can ask yourself what I see in this and why do I keep putting up with the flames and abuse I keep getting from various people in this place.

      I don't enjoy arguing any more than I enjoy being labelled and ridiculed by a bunch of people who have no clue what I'm even on about. And I certainly don't enjoy being held hostage by this site, unable to remove the content I placed here. Some people snigger that if I wanted to go for a job in Perl people could look me up on here and then throw my CV in the bin... I don't even want a job writing Perl, as far as I am concerned, I use Perl as a the low-level plumbing/glue to achieve what I want at the higher level of aXML. I have about as much interest in learning to be a classical Perl programmer as I have in starting a career in COBOL, and for the same reasons! I.E I find it boring, tedious, low-level, fiddly, overly complicated and crufty.

      I had two aims in mind when I brought aXML to this forum;

      • 1 : Gather intel on how to make it fast.

      • 2 : Share the concept altruistically under the ethos of open-source.

      I've achieved the first goal, aXML is now fast. But as for sharing it openly, all I get for being so kind is abuse and I'm sick of it. People behave like a bunch of group-think zombies and hurl abuse at me constantly for my altruism, so what's in it for me? I don't give a flying turd if you can make it work for you or not, winning some argument with you is not interesting to me, as I have better things to do like making aXML do more cool things.

        Look, why don't you just follow the instructions given

        You didn't give me any instructions on how to use aXML. But seeing as it doesn't compile, I don't see how those instructions would help anyway.

        But as for sharing it openly, all I get for being so kind is abuse...

        Untrue. I'm not the only person to have gone out of my way to try to help you build something better.

        Certainly you've received more abuse than anyone deserves, and that's not okay, but you also bear some responsibility for returning abuse in kind.

        Even so, you've been arguing tooth and nail against the best advice available from some people who really know how parsers and compilers and grammars work—people who've studied and built such things that millions of people use directly and indirectly. This isn't because anyone wants to see you fail, but that you're bumping up against the limits of what is and isn't computable.

        I believe (and I believe ikegami agrees) that your system requires anything which produces output to have an intimate knowledge of the compiling environment, plugins and all. If that's correct--even in a limited case--then you're especially vulnerable to attacks from untrusted user input from everything from denials of service to code injection and cross-site scripting. If you want to build a system that's truly robust and suitable for the general purposes which you've mentioned before, you'd do very well to stop and listen and consider our concerns.

        Feel free to ignore anyone who tells you not to build aXML. If it's a good tool and it makes you more productive, great! Yet do consider that some of us have a lot of experience doing similar things, and we've run into these problems before, many times.


        Improve your skills with Modern Perl: the free book.

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