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Re^19: aXML doesn't compile

by Logicus
on Nov 03, 2011 at 19:38 UTC ( #935757=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^18: aXML doesn't compile
in thread Thanks to Ikegami, Chromatic & Corion

But I have given you it, what you have there is an exact copy of what I had here yesterday.

Look, why don't you just follow the instructions given, and then when you see that it's working you can proceed from that point making it do what ever it is that you want it to do.

At least that way you will be able to examine the dynamic of how it currently works. Maybe you would want to make it do something completely different or use it in conjunction with a bunch of completely different modules, I don't know.

This is what you get when you force an ameture like me to write everything myself whilst saying you won't believe a word I say until I prove to you it works. I've gone as far as I can pulling this thing together, and what I have now is fast, stable, works and is going to be the basis for all my sites very soon including PerlNights. I'm sorry if it doesn't meet up with some criteria which you, the aloof all knowing Perl master, have in mind. I'm not clairvoyant. I don't know how you write Perl or expect things to work, if I did then I wouldn't of found it such a huge struggle to express the concept to this forum in the first place!

Someone pointed out a while ago that I've missed out on a whole load of stuff that's happened in the last 10 years. Sure I can see that, heck I never even used CGI.pm, because by the time I had heard of it, I already had already written an early version of aXML by referring to out of date sites like Tizag.com. Infact Tizag was my first port of call for information on Perl for a long time and was all I needed because I'm quite good at solving problems myself.

And that's another reason why I don't have any standing on this site; I didn't need to ask many questions here, and infact by the time I arrived here, 4 years ago, aXML was already on it's 3rd version. I've never been able to explain clearly what it's about because I don't have much common ground to explain it in terms of, and all the docs about modern perl things seem to be explained in terms of other perl things which I also don't know anything about.

All I know is that I have this system here which allows me do build very complex systems like the one I sent you, in very short lengths of time, and that there doesn't seem to be any other system like it out there. I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours solving problems with it and making it do everything I want for my sites.

In truth I'm an aXML programmer, not a Perl Programmer, I've put myself through this, and it's all my fault for not buying a good book on Perl at the start. But having said that I also would not abandon aXML for all the tea in china. And you can either assume that's because I'm stupid, ignorant and it sucks, or you can ask yourself what I see in this and why do I keep putting up with the flames and abuse I keep getting from various people in this place.

I don't enjoy arguing any more than I enjoy being labelled and ridiculed by a bunch of people who have no clue what I'm even on about. And I certainly don't enjoy being held hostage by this site, unable to remove the content I placed here. Some people snigger that if I wanted to go for a job in Perl people could look me up on here and then throw my CV in the bin... I don't even want a job writing Perl, as far as I am concerned, I use Perl as a the low-level plumbing/glue to achieve what I want at the higher level of aXML. I have about as much interest in learning to be a classical Perl programmer as I have in starting a career in COBOL, and for the same reasons! I.E I find it boring, tedious, low-level, fiddly, overly complicated and crufty.

I had two aims in mind when I brought aXML to this forum;

  • 1 : Gather intel on how to make it fast.

  • 2 : Share the concept altruistically under the ethos of open-source.

I've achieved the first goal, aXML is now fast. But as for sharing it openly, all I get for being so kind is abuse and I'm sick of it. People behave like a bunch of group-think zombies and hurl abuse at me constantly for my altruism, so what's in it for me? I don't give a flying turd if you can make it work for you or not, winning some argument with you is not interesting to me, as I have better things to do like making aXML do more cool things.


Comment on Re^19: aXML doesn't compile
Re^20: aXML doesn't compile
by ikegami (Pope) on Nov 03, 2011 at 21:08 UTC

    Look, why don't you just follow the instructions given

    You didn't give me any instructions on how to use aXML. But seeing as it doesn't compile, I don't see how those instructions would help anyway.

        I'm going to go now, before I say something "unconstructive".
Re^20: aXML doesn't compile
by chromatic (Archbishop) on Nov 03, 2011 at 21:20 UTC
    But as for sharing it openly, all I get for being so kind is abuse...

    Untrue. I'm not the only person to have gone out of my way to try to help you build something better.

    Certainly you've received more abuse than anyone deserves, and that's not okay, but you also bear some responsibility for returning abuse in kind.

    Even so, you've been arguing tooth and nail against the best advice available from some people who really know how parsers and compilers and grammars work—people who've studied and built such things that millions of people use directly and indirectly. This isn't because anyone wants to see you fail, but that you're bumping up against the limits of what is and isn't computable.

    I believe (and I believe ikegami agrees) that your system requires anything which produces output to have an intimate knowledge of the compiling environment, plugins and all. If that's correct--even in a limited case--then you're especially vulnerable to attacks from untrusted user input from everything from denials of service to code injection and cross-site scripting. If you want to build a system that's truly robust and suitable for the general purposes which you've mentioned before, you'd do very well to stop and listen and consider our concerns.

    Feel free to ignore anyone who tells you not to build aXML. If it's a good tool and it makes you more productive, great! Yet do consider that some of us have a lot of experience doing similar things, and we've run into these problems before, many times.


    Improve your skills with Modern Perl: the free book.

      Once again you manage to calm me down :) Thank you. I mean that.

      I admit I shouldn't of engaged with the various detractors quite so undiplomatically. I'm not making excuses for my behaviour I was wrong, but all I will say is this; I'm pretty sure, however undiagnosed, that I have some autistic spectra and I was raised in what amounts to a single parent family by my mum who was herself a victim of pedophilia, so if I'm weird and screwball and I don't deal well with crowds and stuff I'm sorry but I can't help it. While my peers are out doing drugs I'm hold up in my computer den playing with code. I don't fit in ANYWHERE.

      Doubtless certain characters are going to use this latest admittance and revelation to further torment me, well whatever. Really whatever, there comes a point when you just give up caring, and I've just about reached that point.

      I'm not going to let anyone stop me from achieving my goals with aXML. Even if I end up being the only aXML programmer that ever existed. I can see where I want to go with it, the tools that can exist in it's paradigm, and the benefits they will bring. I've tried to describe them but I failed. Perhaps they will only exist only in my mind until I create them or drop dead trying... who knows.

      As for needing intimate knowledge of the compiler and so on, all I can say is that the whole point of aXML is to abstract away from and isolate the end programmer from such concerns. It's meant to be just about the easiest programming language ever. I never knew it would be this hard to make something this easy, and I don't understand why people don't get it because it's so very very simple.

      The more I learn about Perl, the more aXML stands in contrast to it. I don't want to spend my life writing unit-tests and stuff like that to stop the delicate structures breaking or hiding bugs. I find that whole way of doing things frustratingly boring, and I just can't work like that.

      As far as I am concerned, I have moved on from Perl in the same sort of way that Larry moved on from C, and I don't want to go back for the same reasons. Now when Larry showed the world the first Perl, did he not get criticised? That's never going to be as fast as C! Look at all these wonderful tools we have already in C! Why are you reinventing the wheel... just use C! It's the same thing for me but with aXML to Perl instead of Perl to C.

      Perl already had a complete and highly popular language born from it; PHP. But PHP has lots of problems and I don't like it at all because you end up with spaghetti messes which have no structure and are a pain in rear-end to debug or re-factor. aXML is just as easy as PHP but doesn't suffer from those problems because there is very little way to get it wrong, and when I have an aXML aware editor life will get even easier again. I don't want to work with anything else at all ever and I don't care if it takes me another 4 years or 40 years to get where I want to go because I have nothing better to do.

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