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Re^3: Hockey Sticks

by Jenda (Abbot)
on Jan 17, 2012 at 16:36 UTC ( #948351=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^2: Hockey Sticks
in thread Hockey Sticks

And the point is? If I'm waiting for a bus I am (prettymuch) standing still. It's the bus that moves. Hopefully. It's good to hear the bus nearing though.

Jenda
Enoch was right!
Enjoy the last years of Rome.


Comment on Re^3: Hockey Sticks
Re^4: Hockey Sticks
by JavaFan (Canon) on Jan 17, 2012 at 16:56 UTC
    If I'm waiting for a bus that still is being constructed, with no time frame of delivery other than "before Christmas", and has been under construction for 11.5 years, while the bus that it is supposed to replace has been upgraded several times, and it now being upgraded on a yearly basis, I'd take the old bus to work every day.

    I'd consider Perl6 to "be there" when there's a business who makes enough money with Perl6 that it's willing to donate EUR 100,000 to the Perl6 maintenance fund, with several other Perl6 companies funding YAP6C to the extend they run a profit.

      If I'm waiting for a bus that still is being constructed ... I'd take the old bus to work every day.

      Precisely.

      I'd consider Perl6 to "be there" when...

      Both the places I live at are stops well short of the stop you consider "there". Perl 6 has already passed my "weekend" place, which is when I have time to help. I expect to hear it approaching my other place, which involves a non-demanding production project, within about a year. I see several other interesting stops on the way prior to the destination you are considering, but to each their own.

Re^4: Hockey Sticks
by moritz (Cardinal) on Jan 18, 2012 at 08:44 UTC

    If you're waiting for a new programming language or compiler the same way that you're waiting for a bus (not doing much else at that time, and basically blocking your further actions on the arrival), you're doing something very wrong.

      ... you're doing something very wrong.

      Do you not suggest taking the front page of Rakudo.org at its word? After all, that summer 2011 Rakudo Star nom release has been just a few weeks away for months now.

      Look, I know as well as anyone how fungible volunteer time and interest are not—but the lack of any releases (let alone usable releases) combined with the perpetual party line that it's ready if you just clap your hands and believe enough is really, really not working. If anything, it's completely counterproductive.

      I gave my suggestions as to what to do a long time ago; take them or leave them. (I repeat though: making and meeting commitments is a prerequisite to the trust of your users.)

        Do you not suggest taking the front page of Rakudo.org at its word? ... I repeat though: making and meeting commitments is a prerequisite to the trust of your users.
        The front page post commits to a compiler release within 3 weeks. A compiler release was made 21 days later. For more details, see this comment.

        I accept that your confusion could be said to be the fault of the Rakudo and/or Perl 6 projects. In particular, Rakudo.org has long needed an update to reflect what's actually going on. More generally, misinformation about Perl 6 abounds. I'm not sure it makes sense for us to go around fixing all the myriad pages about Perl 6 right now. But I acknowledge it's a big problem.

        In the meantime, I again appeal to Fivers to view themselves as a 25 year older brother with a butterfly loving but late-blooming 12 year old sister. Occasional fights are OK, but, in general, be nice!

        As I've carefully explained in my January responses in this thread to chromatic, he had misread the rakudo.org front page, and had misunderstood what had been happening with Rakudo releases. This July 2012 update will hopefully make the reality crystal clear.

        The latest version of Rakudo, a Perl 6 compiler, has to date been formally released monthly for around 5 years, with the exception of one month in mid-2011.

        Rakudo Star, a bundling of a version of the Rakudo compiler plus extras (modules, doc, etc.) has to date been formally released quarterly or monthly for about 2 years, with the exception of skipping October 2011. It has been released monthly since Jan 2012.

        Of the lastest, Rakudo Star 2012.06, ajs, who I believe had left Perl 6 alone for a year or so, says "I can't begin to stress what a dream it is to work in Rakudo Star 2012.06 compared to any other implementation of P6 I've ever touched".

        chromatic is right about the need to see past the enthusiasm of the likes of myself and ajs (and, at one time, and hopefully one day again, chromatic himself), but I am convinced it is important that P5 folk take Larry Wall, and hence P6, seriously.

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