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Scope Creep

by chromatic (Archbishop)
on Jan 22, 2012 at 07:14 UTC ( #949232=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Telling Users What They Want is Stupid Never Works
in thread Hockey Sticks

Rakudo hasn't gone off the rails.

Read the front page of Rakudo.org. That August 2011 nom distribution release still hasn't happened. The Star release you mention has been a few weeks away since July.

A project which cannot (or will not) release working software has indeed gone off the rails.


Comment on Scope Creep
Scope Creep (was Hockey Sticks))
by raiph (Friar) on Jan 22, 2012 at 20:16 UTC
    I'm trying to combat my own scope creep, namely responding to your scope creep, but I'm going to do this one more time...

    Read the front page of Rakudo.org. That August 2011 nom distribution release still hasn't happened. The Star release you mention has been a few weeks away since July.
    Quoting from that front page: "I donít want to specify an exact date for the next release; certainly it will occur within the next three weeks." The next monthly Rakudo compiler release (they don't refer to these as "distributions") happened exactly 3 weeks later. It was based on the new object model, as they had hoped.

    The original plan was for Star releases (they refer to these as "distributions") to be on a quarterly release schedule in 2011. They did Jan, a couple of April variants, and July. The next was scheduled for October. Then...

    Patrick, the lead dev (and rakudo.org webmaster), more or less dropped out of the project late September last year. Patrick had nom work underway. It was possible he would return, so it made no sense for others to dig in to his work. Instead they initially chose to defer the Star release until he returned, finished and merged his work, and did the release, as he had been doing them up till then.

    jnthn and Moritz took over as lead devs. From late October, news from Patrick dried up. By December, jnthn concluded he needed to go ahead with a Star release without Patrick's code and help. He took a proper Christmas break and now has a Star release nearly ready. (Ironically enough Patrick recently appeared on #perl6 and said he hopes to be back in action this coming week.)

    I ask that you (and anyone else) consider the need to read things carefully, be wary of jumping to conclusions, consider asking perl6ers (I recommend #perl6) to get the latest news, be considerate of Paula's condition, and avoid being assertive about problems with Perl 6 unless you know you're right, because unfair negative comments may make a difficult situation (personal pain) worse as well as discouraging potential contributors.

      Fine, you win. I couldn't deploy it because I didn't want it hard enough—there were no technical barriers in the way, just my bad attitude.

      Now let's all put on our happy faces and pretend Rakudo Star has been going swimmingly, just according to plan.

        Now let's all put on our happy faces and pretend Rakudo Star has been going swimmingly, just according to plan.

        That's not an either-or: Rakudo Star definitely has not gone swimmingly due to Patrick's absence, but it's still moving according to plan:

        • compiler releases still happen monthly
        • distribution releases still happen every 3-6 months as necessary: the last one was 2011.07, the next one has its release announcement already written and is due any day now....

        -- gerdr

      I don't want to discredit Patrick, far from that. He's done some amazing work. And the same counts for Johnathan. On top of that, it's always nice to catch up with either of them if I run into them at a conference.

      But it's worrysome that a project almost comes to a halt if a single person, for whatever reason, is suddenly unavailable. That's not a sign a project is anywhere near the state of "mature". If I were an IT manager of a company that may consider switching to Perl6 at some time in the future, I'd take notice.

        But it's worrysome that a project almost comes to a halt if a single person, for whatever reason, is suddenly unavailable. That's not a sign a project is anywhere near the state of "mature". If I were an IT manager of a company that may consider switching to Perl6 at some time in the future, I'd take notice.
        Sigh. Before I go on, I must acknowledge frustration.

        On what basis are you saying that Rakudo development has almost come to a halt?

        Let's ignore all the work on the overall ecology, like changes to the test suite (lots of that). the spec, the nice work on pod, panda, etc. Let's forget Parrot even though they have stated that their work is driven by Rakudo's needs. Let's forget branches not yet merged back in, even though it's recognised that there are more branches waiting to land than usual.

        In the less than 4 months since Patrick paused, there have been something like 1,000 commits to rakudo/rakudo and perl6/nqp (the main parts of the Rakudo compiler).

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