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Re^9: Hockey Sticks

by raiph (Friar)
on Jul 11, 2012 at 05:05 UTC ( #981004=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^8: Hockey Sticks
in thread Hockey Sticks

Just to be sure, you recognize that TheDamian was speaking somewhat tongue-in-cheek, right? He didn't really mean that P6 should have been developed as a closed, private project!


Comment on Re^9: Hockey Sticks
Re^10: Hockey Sticks
by Anonymous Monk on Jul 11, 2012 at 05:19 UTC

    No!

    But you didn't get the point, I started following Perl 6 a little late. So here is what I went through. A colleague comes to me and talks about Perl 6, Gives an excellent introduction, a few links and then leaves.

    First I browse around Pugs project, and check chromatic's weekly updates on Design notes. Then I read so many more links and I'm super excited. Until I learn the project has a years of history already. Then I read that no release date exists. Nevertheless, Some think called Rakudo exists. I begin following it. Pugs begins to die a slow death and later the development is completely halted. Rakudo grows substantially(like Niecza is now), then Rakudo suffers slowdown. Then rewrites, then porting to multiple backends. Years later, up until now still no production release exists.

    Niecza evolves in the same path.

    When you look at the snapshot of the whole history. You see failures, slowdowns, rewrites, porting to multiple backends and yet no production release yet. A lot of blog posts, essays but no end to this thing.

    Amidst all this, the scariest part is. Earlier a thread like this would start a long thread of people venting frustration. Some trolling, some complaining. These days no one even cares! Seems like many people have already given up.

      > When you look at the snapshot of the whole history. You see failures, slowdowns, rewrites, porting to multiple backends and yet no production release yet. A lot of blog posts, essays but no end to this thing.

      That's what you see and emphasize. But please don't suggest that's all there is to see or emphasize. I see and emphasize successes (zavolaj, emmentaler, bailador, rosettacode, etc.), development speedups (that's why I wrote the original meditation this comment is part of), code that's good enough that it doesn't need rewriting (eg the excellent p6model), continued hope that the Parrot team will deliver (but a strategy, and now codebase, that no longer relies on that), and a lot of high quality releases (or whatever you want to call them). A lot of blog posts, essays, and clear evidence P6 will be productized in the next year or two.

      I get that most don't care. I'm focusing on speaking to those that do.

Re^10: Hockey Sticks
by Anonymous Monk on Jul 11, 2012 at 08:11 UTC

    Just to be sure, you recognize that TheDamian was speaking somewhat tongue-in-cheek, right? He didn't really mean that P6 should have been developed as a closed, private project!

    Well he wasn't speaking tongue-in-cheek, you can hear it in his voice :)

    But he wasn't speaking tongue-in-cheek, I wanted to point out to fellow AM that TheDamian acknowledges a failure of marketing -- the thing he's complaining about -- maybe it would make fellow AM feel better

    TheDamian goes on to say rakudo is an alpha release , this interview was in 2011

    Its 2012 now, I don't know what is different, but I can still see small issues of marketing, not as extreme as fellow AM feels

      TheDamian acknowledges a failure of marketing

      Damian said "failure of marketing" to refer to the fact that on the one hand "people have given up on Perl 6 ever appearing" but on the other there's the reality that "it has appeared" and "3 years ago we started releasing alphas" and "we're very close to something that you could call Perl 6.0.0 if you wanted to" and "it's an awesome language".

      Of course, some folk will argue that it hasn't been released, or that we shouldn't do marketing until it hits production status, or that it's not really an improvement on Perl 5, or Ruby, and on and on...

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