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Re^8: Perl 5 Optimizing Compiler, Part 5: A Vague Outline Emerges

by BrowserUk (Pope)
on Aug 31, 2012 at 18:51 UTC ( #991074=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re^7: Perl 5 Optimizing Compiler, Part 5: A Vague Outline Emerges
in thread Perl 5 Optimizing Compiler, Part 5: A Vague Outline Emerges

Yes, but Dave's point is that that's not the slow part of Perl 5.

And my point is, that no one, not me, not you, and not Dave, can possibly know what is possible until we try it.

The point of the exercise -- without me having to complete the entire project, on my own, in 10 hours, to make the point -- was to show how effective LLVM is in capturing not just the C semantics of C code, but the meta semantics of both the code and the data structures it uses.

Hoping (in vain) that by doing so, Dave would see beyond the C semantics of the perl sources, and see the possibilities of re-writing -- in the Haskell compiler nomenclature, term re-writing sense -- those structures and functions in such a way as to allow optimisations that are simply inconceivable: at the C level; or through the blinkers of C semantics.

Maybe in certain cases people are willing to spend a couple of hours on a powerful machine to compile an important program to bitcode and then to native code, but I'm not sure that's the end goal here.

Firstly, LLVM takes about 2 minutes to process 30,000 lines of C to 300 lines of IR. It then takes another 2 minutes to convert that to compile-able, linkable C++.

I think that for many people -- including Will -- the ability to develop a perl program as an interpreted entity with all teh productivity etc. that we know and love, and then when it is fully tested and working, spend a "couple of hours" or even a couple of days, converting that (the Perl program, all its modules and dependencies; and perl itself), to a fully portable bitcode representation, that can then be compiled and linked, (per platform), to standalone executables that run faster and are resistant to casual manipulations, is exactly what they would like!

If some of those benefits could be had from running perl & LLVM together in some kind of hybrid mode, all the better.

With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
"Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

RIP Neil Armstrong

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[marto]: a suggestion, have one project in the list that isn't programming/perl related
[Corion]: marto: Yeah, things are more parent-friendly the way they are ;))
[marto]: some hardware/makey thing
[Corion]: marto: Ah, I'm currently drifting to that again, over"painting" (well with Inkscape) one of my photographs and thinking about vectorizing some other images ...
[marto]: Corion, yes something 'artistic', so that or some music. Even combine some things, build a musical instrument :)
[Corion]: marto: Naah, I'm avoiding that rabbit hole ;) Sometimes I think of using Perl to create MIDI to generate music, or at least the harmonies to which I could jam, but then that would eat even more into available time ;-))

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