Beefy Boxes and Bandwidth Generously Provided by pair Networks
Clear questions and runnable code
get the best and fastest answer
 
PerlMonks  

Comment on

( #3333=superdoc: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

You spotted an unclarity in my presentation. I was vague about what "time" the code strings are to be run. Perhaps this is better:

sub halts { my $machine = shift; my $input = shift; is_whatever_nullary( qq{ BEGIN { run_turing_equivalent("\Q$machine\E", "\Q$input\E"); sub whatever() {}; } } ) }

Using rand() is indeed more obvious and it was how I tested my code snippets (I lent my Halting Oracle to a friend and she never returned it ... but don't get me started.) I did not use it in the presentation because while it makes the proof more obvious, it's a proof of a weaker theorem.

If you interpret rand() as truly random (and not as pseudo-random), then we're dealing with non-deterministic programs. Someone might then say, "as long as there is no non-determinism while compiling, Perl 5 is statically parseable." But it's not and a proof using the Turing machine simulator shows it is not. That Perl 5 is unparseable even when the code is completely deterministic is a much stronger result, and the distinction makes a difference in practice.

The Turing simulation in this case is brought in for very practical reasons. I can't claim the credit for that. Adam Kennedy's hint took me in this direction. I suspect he also knew the business about rand(). But with his many hours of real life experience trying to statically parse Perl, he focused on the stronger proof -- the one that would give him the most information about what he was up against in creating PPI.


In reply to Re^2: Perl Cannot Be Parsed: A Formal Proof (meh) by Jeffrey Kegler
in thread Perl Cannot Be Parsed: A Formal Proof by Jeffrey Kegler

Title:
Use:  <p> text here (a paragraph) </p>
and:  <code> code here </code>
to format your post; it's "PerlMonks-approved HTML":



  • Posts are HTML formatted. Put <p> </p> tags around your paragraphs. Put <code> </code> tags around your code and data!
  • Read Where should I post X? if you're not absolutely sure you're posting in the right place.
  • Please read these before you post! —
  • Posts may use any of the Perl Monks Approved HTML tags:
    a, abbr, b, big, blockquote, br, caption, center, col, colgroup, dd, del, div, dl, dt, em, font, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, hr, i, ins, li, ol, p, pre, readmore, small, span, spoiler, strike, strong, sub, sup, table, tbody, td, tfoot, th, thead, tr, tt, u, ul, wbr
  • Outside of code tags, you may need to use entities for some characters:
            For:     Use:
    & &amp;
    < &lt;
    > &gt;
    [ &#91;
    ] &#93;
  • Link using PerlMonks shortcuts! What shortcuts can I use for linking?
  • See Writeup Formatting Tips and other pages linked from there for more info.
  • Log In?
    Username:
    Password:

    What's my password?
    Create A New User
    Chatterbox?
    and the web crawler heard nothing...

    How do I use this? | Other CB clients
    Other Users?
    Others having an uproarious good time at the Monastery: (11)
    As of 2014-12-22 21:45 GMT
    Sections?
    Information?
    Find Nodes?
    Leftovers?
      Voting Booth?

      Is guessing a good strategy for surviving in the IT business?





      Results (131 votes), past polls