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"Whiteboard Nodes"

by Corion (Pope)
on Jun 06, 2000 at 18:52 UTC ( #16634=monkdiscuss: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

This is an idea from the chat which I'm writing up to get more feedback from the rest of the populace :

It would be convenient on the chat to have "Whiteboard" or "Scrap" nodes, that will last only 2 hours, to post ad-hoc sample code or larger snippets, that don't validate a question to SOPW or Q&A.

Of course, it is currently possible to post such code on the home node, but some people have stuff on their home node and modifying the home node just for some ad-hoc code isn't really convenient


Now my opinion on this

No XP are given for creating/modifying a "Scrap" node

Every (logged in) user has a "Scrap" node accessible under [Username Scrap Node]

These nodes would be automatically deleted by the engine - if something is worth keeping, create a different node for it and gather the XP for it ;)

No links _to_ the scrap node should be possible from permanent nodes - at least, it would be unwise to do such links ;)

Only the creating user has write access to his/her home node.

Comment on "Whiteboard Nodes"
RE: Whiteboard Nodes
by le (Friar) on Jun 06, 2000 at 18:57 UTC
    I think this is a pretty good idea.
Whiteboard Node additions
by Corion (Pope) on Jun 06, 2000 at 18:58 UTC

    Of course, I was too quick in hitting the New button and I can't change the original writeup... D'oh again.

    The above sentence "my opinion on this" should more read My feature list - my fast-typing-english isn't that fluent ;)

    lhoward also had an interesting idea of putting the "Scrap" nodes on the bottom (or top) of the chatterbox, which would make it possible even for the clueless to find them.

    And finally, the Access issue should not be about the home node but about the Scrap Node ...

      I like the general idea of what you're going for; don't put it on the chatterbox, though. Not only would that be hard to update, but there's already too much STUFF there on the right side of the screen.

      I kind of like the home node idea; it shouldn't be all that difficult to create, if it's just part of the home node.

      - Ozymandias

RE: Scrap Nodes
by swiftone (Curate) on Jun 06, 2000 at 19:05 UTC
    Good idea! Many times people will come in with a "newbie" or very specific question, and not wish to clutter an area with it. My comments:
    • No XP are given for creating/modifying a "Scrap" node
      Makes sense to me.
    • Every (logged in) user has a "Scrap" node accessible under [Username Scrap Node]
      Again, seems pretty clear
    • These nodes would be automatically deleted by the engine - if something is worth keeping, create a different node for it and gather the XP for it ;)
      Good thought, but there should be a way to "Move" a branch from scrap to a permanent section. Cutting and pasting isn't always easy (many browsers screw formatting).
    • No links _to_ the scrap node should be possible from permanent nodes - at least, it would be unwise to do such links ;)
      Unwise I agree with. I see no practical way to prevent someone from trying though.
    • Only the creating user has write access to his/her home node.
      I disagree. The node created chould allow open comments like most nodes. Discussion in the Chatterbox is very difficult since we can't use < > [ ] characters and can't make links to un/poorly named nodes, much less offsite. It would make sense merely for the posting form to make it clear that you are posting a TEMPORARY NODE. If your info is more useful, you should post a tutorial or Q&A, and link to it in the temp node.
      • Making Scrap Nodes permanent

        I think there is a problem with moving a complete node tree, as not everything in that tree is worth keeping - if I post something as a reply to a Scrap Node, I maybe don't want it to be kept or even voted on :). Then there also is the "problem" that one gets no XP if a Scrap node tree is made permanent. On the other side, such is life.
        As for the pasting issue, you always have access to the source of nodes created by you, so you can cutīnīpaste the source from there into the new node... This won't help if the creating user went offline before the decision for node permanentness and copying all temp nodes was made ...

        I see need for more discussion on that topic !

      • Linking into Scrap Nodes

        Well, without changes to the engine, we can't prevent people from linking into Scrap Nodes and maybe it's even helpful, for example for posting a link into the chatterbox.

      • Access to Scrap Nodes

        Your solution would be the most elegant solution I guess, by allowing replies to Scrap Nodes, we avoid the multiple-access issue completely.

      I think that only the creating user should have write access to the scrap node also due to
      the fact that if you allow everyone to write to everyone elses then you will get many splinter
      conversations carrying on in a chat room type environment. I think conversation should be carried
      out via the chatterbox so it is open to the community.
        I think conversation should be carried out via the chatterbox so it is open to the community.

        I'll go for that only if the Chatterbox will accept Href links, and will not remove all < > [ ] symbols. It's just too hard to give code examples without that. Perhaps if <CODE> tag was the only one the chatterbox accepted?

Quotes in Title
by swiftone (Curate) on Jun 06, 2000 at 19:32 UTC
    BTW Vroom, Apparently putting double quotes in the title pooches the VALUE tag for the reply form. A minor thing, but thought I'd mention it.
(zdog) RE: Whiteboard Nodes
by zdog (Priest) on Jun 06, 2000 at 20:13 UTC
    I think you have a pretty good idea going, however, I would have whatever is written on the whiteboard node remain permanent unless it is deleted by the user himself. After all, he is the only one that is going to see it. The only limit that I would put on it is the length of the writing on the node. That should be limited to save memory. That's just my opinion.

    -- zdog (Zenon Zabinski)
       Go Bells!!

RE:
by mikfire (Deacon) on Jun 06, 2000 at 20:15 UTC
    On keeping the Scrap nodes, could we ( maybe ) add "Do not erase" button to the scrap board and call it Blackboard? If the button is clicked, the conversation stays around. It then works similar to any other node in the system. A new scrap board conversation can be started just like a new Question is opened. Normal conversation around any given node flows like normal.

    When the Do Not Erase button is not clicked ( or unclicked, for that matter ), some maintenance process will delete it automagically. Preferably in a well defined time frame - say the culling process would run about the same time that votes are refreshed.

    It may be worthwhile to consider a maximum life span. Anything left on the Blackboard for more than, say, 7 days will be culled. That will prevent the area from getting too cluttered and still give us time to mull over any questions and to properly consider the answers given.

    Mik
    mikfire

      The idea of making Scrap Nodes freely creatable has pros and cons. There are valid reasons why one person would want to have two scrap pages "running", but there would be some invasion of Scrap Pages then...

      The idea of having a "don't delete" checkbox to prevent the (untimely) cleanup of such a node is also good, but this would mostly make sense if you could create Scrap Nodes like any other node. I think that a reminder after 5 days and a forced deletion after 10 days would be OK.

      Of course the scrap nodes could be used for spamming etc., but as long as we can keep the scrap nodes from showing up under Newest Nodes, that's not too much of a hassle I think - anything that survives longer than 2 hours should be a permanent node anyway.

RE:
by royalanjr (Chaplain) on Jun 07, 2000 at 00:35 UTC

    Overall a great idea. I would vote for them being temporary in nature. Two hours is too short of a time however. A power-outtage in your area while you are working and that lovely bit of scrap you were going to save is now gone when the power comes back four hours later. Perhaps say twelve hours from the last time someone edited the scrap node. Or maybe even a full day. This way, if people are still interested in fiddling with the node's contents, it would be around. But, then again, if it is that interesting, then maybe it should be permanent after all! Absolutely no XP for creating or adding to one though.

    Roy Alan
    "I quit; I concede. Tanj on your silly game!" -- Louis Wu
RE: WhiteBoard Nodes...
by PipTigger (Friar) on Jun 08, 2000 at 15:07 UTC
    I think the solution to the aforementioned issues is a hybrid of many suggestions: Firstly, each Monk should be able to configure the Chatterbox to be much more than a little nodelet on the side. Say a checkbox to give the chatbox it's own table right below the text links of the top menu. A default clip size for chats that are too long for the nodelet area so Monks with an expanded chatbox can write a whole lot to engage in lengthy discourse but most Monks won't want the verbose dialog and would be able to limit it. Also, a checkbox to have the chatbox auto retrieve new chats with a set frequency (like every second) so that it's updated very quickly instead of only when you follow a new link. Of course it's of paramount importance (with the lengthened chat ability) to be able to include html code tags in chat comments. Regarding the scrap nodes, home nodes should have a scrap area where anyone can create up to 15 unique scrap nodes. These should be able to be linked (even though the links are more likely to break than others) because the inability would hurt more than the failure opportunity caused by the ability. Every scrap node should have 3 sections: the authors text, community scrap, and comments. The first is only the scrap node's author's text which earns no XP. The second is a space that can be edited by anyone and also earns no XP. The third are traditional comments with XP and everything. If a scrap node is not accessed for a week (that means it doesn't get hit even once from any link or the author himself) it is marked for removal. If a scrap node is being removed and any normal comments have been added to it, the entire scrap thread is inherited by the author of the first comment (including the community scrap section). This way, scraps can be handed down (in ownership) from each contributing comment author until they are entirely unown
      ed. This would also enable a Monk to inherit scrap threads that would push the scrap count past the threshold but that would be an acceptable situation since it's not likely to persist. I know this all may seem terribly clumsy but I think it could be really useful. It might be feasible to auto-promote scrap threads to permanents in a special section if they are commented on 7 times or they persist for 3 weeks because users other than the author have been accessing them. What do my fellow Monks think about these ideas? TTFN & Shalom.

      -PipTigger

      p.s. Byslexia is a Ditch!

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