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### Re: Re: (Golf) Let's go bowling

by Brovnik (Hermit)
 on Aug 09, 2001 at 03:17 UTC ( #103281=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re: (Golf) Let's go bowling
in thread (Golf) Let's go bowling

This fails on
```X 0 / X 0 / X 0 / X 0 / X 0 / X -> 200, should be 210
Update following comments below : I stand by the 210 score here. Hitting a spare in the 10th frame means you get one extra ball.
In this case it is a strike (meaning here that you score 10 for the pincount but don't get any further extra balls.)

This is the same principle that allows a score of 300 for a perfect game, counting the 11th and 12th shots as purely pincount of 10 each.
--
Brovnik

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Having messed this up enough...
by tilly (Archbishop) on Aug 09, 2001 at 04:45 UTC
chipmunk has the right answer here. Here is how to score that example:
```Recorded  FrameScore Total
--------  ---------- -----
X          20       20

0
/          20       40

X          20       60

0
/          20       80

X          20      100

0
/          20      120

X          20      140

0
/          20      160

X          20      180

0
/          20      200

X       (NOT PART OF ANY FRAME)
-----
200
Does that make sense now?
X (NOT PART OF ANY FRAME)

Not true. It's part of the 10th frame. The so-called "extra" or "bonus" ball given for a mark (strike or spare) in the 10th frame is merely a natural consequence of the scoring rules. In any frame, a strike is 10 + next 2 balls, and a spare is 10 + the next ball. All frames are scored the same, so there must be two balls thrown after a strike or one ball after a spare.

I think that the terminology is somewhat arbitrary here. But here is my reasoning.

If your game starts with X then X, the second strike is definitely part of the second frame, not the first. It affects the scoring of the first frame, but it is not part of it.

Similarly if you get a strike in the 10'th frame then you need to throw 2 more balls to find your final score. Because you are not going to throw any more frames, you get the chance to throw them right away. But I would like to classify them for scoring purposes as being no more part of the tenth frame than the second strike was part of the first frame. Certainly the scoring would not be any different if the custom was that the extra balls were thrown as part of an 11'th and 12'th (if needed) frames which were not themselves scored.

So in terms of when they are thrown, sure. They are thrown as part of the 10'th frame. But in terms of having a simple consistent mental model of what the scoring means, I find that it makes more sense to think of them as being outside the first 10 frames.

Re: Re: Re: (Golf) Let's go bowling
by virtualsue (Vicar) on Aug 15, 2001 at 14:15 UTC
```X 0 / X 0 / X 0 / X 0 / X 0 / X -> 200, should be 210
Update following comments below : I stand by the 210 score here. Hitting a spare in the 10th frame means you get one extra ball.

No, it's 200. tilly's slightly unusual exegesis of the 10th frame above may have thrown you off. As you yourself say, the tenth frame is scored exactly like the previous 9 - the spare gives 10 + the next ball (X) -> 10 + 10 = 20, just as in the other 9 frames. Each frame in the game scores 20, and 20 * 10 = 200. Perhaps seeing it in a more bowling-alley-like style will help:

```   1   2   3   4   5    6    7    8    9    10
X   0/  X   0/  X    0/   X    0/   X    0/X
20  40  60  80  100  120  140  160  180  200
Re: Re: Re: (Golf) Let's go bowling
by chipmunk (Parson) on Aug 14, 2001 at 02:23 UTC
Okay, let's try this out, on a perfect game. (The extra balls for the strike in the tenth frame are in the 'eleventh' and 'twelfth' frames, respectively.)
```      +-----------------------------------------------+
Frame | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |10 |11 |12 |
+-----------------------------------------------+
Tally |  X| X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X |
+-----------------------------------------------+
Score | 30| 60| 90|120|150|180|210|240|270|300|310|320|
+-----------------------------------------------+
The extra balls should be counted only for their bonuses in the previous frames. They do not get counted on their own. Thus, the correct score for a game of X 0 / X 0 / X 0 / X 0 / X 0 / X is 200, not 210.

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