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Re(3): don't be nervous about OT

by ybiC (Prior)
on Nov 09, 2003 at 19:17 UTC ( #305707=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re^2: don't be nervous about OT
in thread don't be nervous about OT

I agree wholeheartedly with Abigail-II on this.   Speaking out against OT posts is the best way I know of to address a strongly potential problem *before* it becomes an actual and substantial problem.

I don't dislike OT posts out of arbitrariety, rather because they invite a trend toward slashdot-ness.   One of the things I really like about the Monastery is that interaction here is mostly reasoned, civil, and mature, which contrasts tremendously with anything-goes sites.   S/Nr++

I believe that the Monastery's fairly narrow focus plays a primary role in keeping this community a positive and enjoyable place to frequent.   Personally, I have no end of (SQL|*nix|bash|win32|hygeine)-ish questions that I'd *love* to be able to post here.   But I recognize that it would be detrimental to the community to do so.   Hence, I bite my tongue, and spit dat chat in de CB.

For any who advocate a more laissez-faire approach, I'd encourage reading through some of Clay Shirky’s Writings About the Internet.   I don't agree with everything he writes, but his commentaries on 'net communities and scaling make a lot of sense.   Here's a couple notables, there are more.

To summarize, I submit that it's better for the Monastery as a community if off topic posts are gently, firmly, persistantly, and consistantly discouraged, and done so *before* adverse affects manifest.   The CB provides a great facility for non-perlish discussions, with few-to-none adverse affects on the site.


  striving toward Perl Adept
  (it's pronounced "why-bick")

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Re^4: don't be nervous about OT
by Aristotle (Chancellor) on Nov 09, 2003 at 22:49 UTC

    It might be worth remembering that Perl's strength is amalgamating foreign cultures.

    The distinction is not always clear either. If someone has a problem with their mod_perl stuff, they may not even be able to tell whether it's on the Apache end or the Perl side. Likewise someone's trouble with a database - and if it turns out to be something like a bug in a DBD it might even be arguable that it belongs to both sides of the fence.

    Now don't think I'm advocating OT posts and broadening the focus - far from it. I'm firmly in favour of clearly labelling OT stuff as OT as a way of reinforcing the focus. But attempts to actively control OT stuff tend to drive down the very SNR you're concerned about as people start debating the merit of posts and the meta-ness of threads increases.

    I've led a community before and learned a number of lessons in this area. The most important one is that rules cannot be enforced; they can only be suggested. Improving the quality of contributions does not happen by forbidding undesired content; it can only be brought about by making the community reinforce itself in encouraging desired content. This is a very indirect process that works ever better the fewer direct interventions happen. The articles you cite are a good place to start if you're interested in understanding these kinds of mechanics. :)

    So all I'm saying is to remember that while Perl's the site's focus, that means there are other things on the blurry fringes of the picture. So long as people are reminded that these areas are off-focus, they will not divert their sight.

    Makeshifts last the longest.

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[erix]: that should be "to an already-too-late- project" I think
[ambrus]: oh yes, we have a pretty good example of that when they reorganized the grill place in the restaurant nearby.
[ambrus]: it now has two more people working there, and they're serving slower and more expensive.
[ambrus]: It used to be just a master cook who takes the order and puts the meat and eggs on the open grill plate table, and an assistant who removes them to a plate, adds the side dish, and gives the plate to the people in the queue, plus a cashier.
[ambrus]: Now it has five people instead of three, some sort of call number ticket system where people wait a lot for their food to get ready (it's the same kinds of grilled meat and fish on the same equipment, it won't actually fry slower),
[ambrus]: it's slow as hell, and the food costs significantly more.
[ambrus]: We no longer eat there.
LanX Everybody quotes it, some people read it, and a few people go by it
[ambrus]: LanX: why would I read it? isn't it a book for managers? I don't want to be a manager.
[ambrus]: I don't quote it either.

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