Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by chb (Deacon) on May 24, 2005 at 07:06 UTC
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I want a book. Made from dead trees. It should have the title 'Programming Perl6' and a friendly animal on the front cover. It shold be _the_ reference I can rely on for a couple of years. | [reply] [Watch: Dir/Any] |
Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by gaal (Parson) on May 24, 2005 at 08:27 UTC
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Deployment
- I want it to be easy to deploy Perl6 apps in places where only a minimal Perl6 runtime exists, and little else.
- I'm hoping Parrot gets fast enough that I'd need to depend on fewer c libraries than I do today.
- I want standard module management tools.
#1 and #3 are somewhat at odds? Sometimes I'm wishing the runtime would have a centralized registry of installed modules; but sometimes I want each app to insulate itself from the possible harm of others installing/upgrading modules. The system has to know how to have two versions of the same modules installed, and I have to learn how to use that effectively. We should lift the good things from Java (PAR++!) but avoid the bad ones (Multiple JVMs on the same machine--!)
Dialects, refactoring
- A core tool that gracefully degrades source code to ASCII ('»' → '>>' etc.). The other way 'round might be fun, but is less important.
- Once upon a time I wanted a 'use stricter' pragma for Perl 5 I could use for pedagogic purposes. I hope I get that in Perl 6, though I'm not holding my breath.
- Oh, I want to resurface the idea of a fully decorated AST from which you can reconstruct source code, including comment and whitespace. This is immensely powerful for IDEs (credit to BrowserUk).
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Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by VSarkiss (Monsignor) on May 24, 2005 at 02:00 UTC
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Your number 1 is exactly in line with my number 1.
For me, DBI is Perl's killer app. I realize it's CGI or mod_perl for others, but without DBI I couldn't use Perl in most of the places that I have used it up to now. Until we have a real Perl 6 version of DBI (hyperoperators on result sets, anyone? :-), I'd be content to be able to use the exsting P5 version.
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My plans for a query rewriting mechanism in DBI (via a preparse method) never got off the ground in DBI v1.
But DBI v2 will be implemented in Perl 6 and will, I expect, include at least the mechanism from the start.
Tim Bunce - just passing through...
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Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on May 24, 2005 at 03:03 UTC
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One of the great things about pugs development is that when you wish
for things, half the time, they've already been done.
Let's examine your post in a constructive fashion and try to extract
from it wishlist items that he can use to effectively enhance the
project, which is what autrijus was looking for.
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OK, so out of five points we crossed off four and need a time machine to change the past for the last one!
Thanks for your input!
And yet, here we are. And where is Pugs, Parrot, Perl6, AudreyT, or Mugwumpism .....
And whose still here?
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Pugs can use CPAN modules now!
by audreyt (Hermit) on May 25, 2005 at 03:59 UTC
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So, it seems that my wishlist #1 is shared by many monks. With help from clkao, I've just implemented it. To wit:
use Digest--perl5;
my $cxt = Digest.SHA1;
$cxt.add('Pugs!');
# This prints: 66db83c4c3953949a30563141f08a848c4202f7f
say $cxt.hexdigest;
If you want to play along, build the Pugs from trunk, and run Makefile.PL with the PUGS_EMBED environment variable containing "perl5". There's many rough edges, but they will be fixed in short order. Tests and suggestions welcome! | [reply] [Watch: Dir/Any] [d/l] |
Stale installed files
by mugwumpjism (Hermit) on May 24, 2005 at 00:41 UTC
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How about a `make test' that won't ever fall back on installed modules?
That way, when idiots break modules in ext/ right before release, you won't have a situation where just about all core developers/smokers don't notice, and end up making a new release because of it.
$h=$ENV{HOME};my@q=split/\n\n/,`cat $h/.quotes`;$s="$h/."
."signature";$t=`cat $s`;print$t,"\n",$q[rand($#q)],"\n";
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Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by mattr (Curate) on May 24, 2005 at 16:30 UTC
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It would be nice if you could tune a tradeoff between runtime intelligence and pure speed. Just how fast will it be?
I am expecting parrot will be very fast, and it seems that perl 6 ought to be able to move more quickly if you are willing to sacrifice runtime "intelligence" and DWIMity. You could flag a critical spot for optimization.
I know perl isn't about execution speed, but on the other hand, it ought to be possible to dial in blinding speed if needed. There are many reports related to parrot and perl6 about how it is extremely slow, it is extremely fast, you can restrict variables say to just integers, you have a JIT, etc.
I'd like to know what the reality will be and when someone will stuff perl6 onto an FPGA! Then we'll take over the world, etc. To be serious, am I right in expecting that Perl 6 will be as fast but more advanced than Perl 5, whereas there will be the possibility of more parts of your program (or individual modules) running much faster due to precompilation? Will Perl6 be able to use modules written in other languages, or is this just a buzzword from the parrot project?
Since we're on wishes, I'd also like an easy (no, *really* easy) way to package perl 6 programs/systems with the engine (parrot?) into a portable package. And one target should be J2ME for mobile phones.. how small can a perl6 program be with only files necessary to run it? Can a simple one be compiled to parrot and just that with a parrot engine? More ways to use perl for fun and profit, and more ways to spread into other domains - not just as the glue but also as functional replacements.
Also I think the perl 6 and parrot team should steal some of those guys working on the new open java vm. We need fast, robust core code and the world does not need more java! ("Hey, you said this was a flame retardant suit right?") | [reply] [Watch: Dir/Any] |
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As to the deployment, I think you'll be happy to learn that Parrot is intended to support what you're asking for. For more information, see this subthread. Elian is Dan Sugalski, who was the lead Parrot designer until just recently.
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Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by Anonymous Monk on May 23, 2005 at 23:51 UTC
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* Easy and capable nci handling.
clkao | [reply] [Watch: Dir/Any] |
Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by JanneVee (Friar) on May 24, 2005 at 11:42 UTC
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My wish is a simple one(yeah right, it isn't that simple), a powerful and robust module for statistics and math. | [reply] [Watch: Dir/Any] |
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Perl isn't Mathematica, nor does it have the statistical analysis tools of C (eg. ROOT), but the Math:: namespace houses a couple of powerful tools!
Anyhow, a package that can do a lot of math related things is extremely difficult to design.
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I've seen them, used them(mostly PDL) and I know that is extremely difficult to design. Further I know that perl isn't mathematica. But the nice thing about perl is that it is quite handy when you want to parse large textfiles of data and calculate something on that data without the need to break out in a separate software to do the "hard" stuff on it.
Also, I do believe that this thread was started what we monks would wish for in Perl6 and not what is available in Perl 5. I thought that math module adapted for Perl6 would be a nice addition.
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Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by Anonymous Monk on May 24, 2005 at 14:33 UTC
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Some things that would really get me to use Perl 6 is complete support for output to Parrot, and the ability to call Perl 6 code from Perl 5 and Perl 5 code, modules and XS modules from Perl 6. The last is partly at least the domain of those connecting Perl 5 to Parrot, such as the Ponie project. I depend on a lot of Perl 5 XS modules which interface to C code and I would need to be able to use those from Perl 6, and I also want to be able to use all of the modules in CPAN, either if they are written in Perl 5 or Perl 6, no matter whether I am using them from Perl 5 or Perl 6.
I would like to see Perl 5 and Perl 6 coexist beside each other and share the same community of modules and benefit from each others inertia. | [reply] [Watch: Dir/Any] |
Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by adrianh (Chancellor) on May 24, 2005 at 15:32 UTC
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I'd like to know what other monks think about this. Feel free to list your wishlists, by reordering the numbers above and/or adding more items.
Top of my list would be: Another eight hours in the day. Another day in each week. Another week in each month. Another month in each year. That way I might have the spare time to play with Perl 6 properly :-)
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Another eight hours in the day. Another day in each week. Another week in each month.
No! Then we'd only get paid half as often! ;)
----------
My cow-orkers were talking in punctuation the other day. What disturbed me most was that I understood it.
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Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by pernod (Chaplain) on May 26, 2005 at 09:20 UTC
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Devel::Cover in Perl 6 would be fantastic. I know Paul Johnson got warnocked on the perl6-compiler list when he mentioned this some time ago, but his ideas in that message are very interesting.
pernod
--
Mischief. Mayhem. Soap.
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perl6-compiler is about 1% of the day-to-day development... :-)
pjcj and I has discussed this on #perl6, and Pugs now has range information for every single token in the source file (that's why it can report errors down to column number ranges), and pjcj thinks it's probably sufficient for Devel::Cover to harness from.
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Interactive Debugger / Debugging hooks!
by mugwumpjism (Hermit) on May 26, 2005 at 03:00 UTC
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Don't know why I didn't think of this before, but the thing I miss most about pugs is no -d. Yes, I know that you can use say at strategic places, and re-run the program, but I really like interactive debuggers. Maybe it was all that time spent with DOS debug pulling apart my old XT's BIOS and hack 8086 machine code, or the extensive use of gdb to debug my C++ programs at university. I've just always been a debugger person.
$h=$ENV{HOME};my@q=split/\n\n/,`cat $h/.quotes`;$s="$h/."
."signature";$t=`cat $s`;print$t,"\n",$q[rand($#q)],"\n";
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Re: Your Perl 6 wishlist?
by Cap'n Steve (Friar) on May 25, 2005 at 06:51 UTC
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I just want everything in 5.8 that's marked as experimental to work, specifically the compiler/bytecode features. It doesn't take much to keep me happy. | [reply] [Watch: Dir/Any] |