note jeffa They actually do neither ... they are templating modules and have no responsibility of producing valid HTML - that's up to the HTML coder. As for being overkill, well ... the more you use these tools, the quicker you get at coding with them. You can see an example that i am proud of over at [id://280493] that uses HTML::Template. The template is stored inside DATA - creating a new H::T object that uses the DATA filehandle is a snap: <code> my $template = HTML::Template->new(filehandle => \*DATA); </code> For the Template-Toolkit quick and simple scripts, check out [cpan://Inline::TT], it's slow as hell, but when you combine it with [cpan://Class::DBI] you get some amazing results. I am nearly finished with my C::D mini-tut that will demonstrate using C::D with multiple tables, but here is a snippet just to show you the power of the Class::DBI and Template combo. (and by the way, i learned most of this from [http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/07/15/nocode.html|How to Avoid Writing Code] and the [http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=4464|poop-group mailing list]) <readmore> <code> use strict; use warnings; use DVD::movie; use Inline 'TT'; print DVD(movies => [DVD::movie->retrieve_all]); __DATA__ __TT__ [% BLOCK DVD %] [% FOREACH movie = movies %] <img src="http://dvd.unlocalhost.com/images/[% movie.id %].jpg" align="right" /> <h2>[% movie.title %]</h2> <ul> <li> Year - [% movie.year %]</li> <li>Added - [% movie.timestamp %]</li> <li>Directors:</li> <ul> [% FOREACH director = movie.directors %] <li>[% director.name %]</li> [% END %] </ul> <li>Writers:</li> <ul> [% FOREACH writer = movie.writers %] <li>[% writer.name %]</li> [% END %] </ul> <li>Genres:</li> <ul> [% FOREACH genre = movie.genres %] <li>[% genre.name %]</li> [% END %] </ul> </ul> <br clear="right" /> [% END %] [% END %] </code> That's just too easy. ;) </readmore> <p>jeffa</p> <font size=1> <pre> L-LL-L--L-LL-L--L-LL-L-- -R--R-RR-R--R-RR-R--R-RR B--B--B--B--B--B--B--B-- H---H---H---H---H---H--- (<a href="http://jeffa.perlmonk.org/tripdid.mp3">the triplet paradiddle with high-hat</a>) </pre></font> 280461 280499