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Re^2: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

by pemungkah (Priest)
on Apr 09, 2013 at 22:55 UTC ( #1027860=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
in thread How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

Lady Aleena, I hear you that this didn't bother you, and I'm glad that for whatever reasons it didn't. I believe it may be because you've learned that despite social missteps like this one, there are a lot of great people here, or simply that because of who you are, people treat you very well. (And there's nothing wrong with that! Everybody has people they really like. Lady_Aleena is one of those for many, including me.)

But I would like to be clear here: I didn't say "I think this would bother Lady_Aleena". I said, "this bothers me," and I said why: I feel like it paints a false picture of who we are. I think that 90%+ of the people on Perlmonks really don't think that jokes like that are polite to make.

If we're truly trying to build a level playing field for everyone who comes to Perlmonks, then it should be a space in which it's possible to say, "I am uncomfortable with this" and get real discussion about the issue. Even if I'm completely off-base.

Discussion is not, "you're wrong, shut up and go away", just in case there was doubt about that. It's actually listening, actually considering, interacting honestly and directly.

Sure it's possible that the community standards are different from mine. But it should be a discussable question as to whether they are as good as they could be, as welcoming as they could be, and as open as they could be. I was shocked and stunned at the level of anger and hate in some of the replies, and I did react badly, and I regret having done that. I know better than that.

What was said to me did not feel like the sometimes scratchy, but generally cohesive place I thought I knew after my 13 years here. That makes me quite sad.


Comment on Re^2: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
Re^3: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 11, 2013 at 12:35 UTC
    ..it should be a space in which it's possible to say, "I am uncomfortable with this"

    But that's not what you originally wrote.

    You originally went on the attack - very first post. You weren't just uncomfortable with it, you found it "really offensive". It wasn't just maybe a little politically-incorrect, it was a whole construct to cloak agression in a strawman. And every male Monk was a carrier of vile privilege they had better acknowledge and renounce or they are part of a problem. That one post was infinitely more offensive by it's overt, unmistakable epxression than anything one could infer from the original joke through a biased lens. That's why you got flack back - because you overtly offended people.

    And ever since, you made whole swaths of Monks feel that they were unwelcome. Quite literaly saying in some posts that because a person didn't adhere to your values they didn't really belong. You have been the one trying to impose a code on everyone and excluding any mindset that doesnt' conform to your highly specialized way of thinking.

      Yep, I screwed up, and do you know what I did?

      I apologized. And I'm happy to do it again for you.

      So: I apologize if the manner in which I expressed myself made you or anyone else feel excluded or unwanted. I did not want to make you feel unwelcome. I will be careful not to express myself in this way again.

      I believe this is either the third or fourth version of this apology I have posted; I'll be happy to apologize to any named poster who feels his or her issue was not addressed.

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