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Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!

by BrowserUk (Pope)
on Aug 07, 2013 at 06:27 UTC ( #1048263=monkdiscuss: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

Why not just ban anonymonk from posting anything that looks like a non-local link or url?


With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
"Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

Comment on Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
Re: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
by moritz (Cardinal) on Aug 07, 2013 at 07:43 UTC
      An alternative would be to only show unapproved nodes to logged-in users.

      But aren't they a "legitimate" target market for the spammers?

      The other thought that crossed my mind was a "spam" button in the Approval nodelet for anonymous posts.

      Once clicked, the only place that post shows up is in the 'nodes to consider' list; where it can be restored with 'Keep' if the spam button has been abused.

      The idea being to make the marking of spam a considerably simpler & quicker process than the current 4 present & cooperating monks + a downvote (== extended time when not many monks around).


      With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

        I did not know about the required downvote, and as I do not vote on anonymonk posts at all, that might slow down the reap (if other considerators act the same).


        Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn

        ++ Yes, I like that idea.

        Furthermore, while I don't baulk at downvoting spam, given the flood we seem to be getting recently, I often feel I've wasted about a quarter of my votes each day doing so. Simply getting them off "Newest Nodes" (and the "Unapproved" lists in whatever section) and only requiring "Reap" considerations to remove them would be a significant improvement in my opinion.

        I'd also suggest that they don't appear in "Worst Nodes" either; although, if they weren't actually being downvoted that may be a moot point.

        -- Ken

        I think the idea there is to hide them from the search engine spidering.

        Humans can ignore them for being obviously spam, and most people won't even see them due to reaping, but the spider bots are very aggressive and spot them almost immediately.

Re: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
by rjt (Deacon) on Aug 07, 2013 at 15:09 UTC

    Emphatically agree on the utility of a "Spam" checkbox. IMHO:

    Nodes up for consideration as Spam should allow $reputation == 0 to be reaped. Nodes lose this special consideration as soon as any Keep/Edit votes are cast. I doubt this special case would be abused intentionally, and highly doubt it would be abused even accidentally by 5/5 monks with consideration power. And, if that ever happened, we'd have a genuine PerlMonks conspiracy on our hands, which would no doubt be entertaining.

    Reaped "Spam" nodes should go away quickly and quietly, and (perhaps after a 1-2 day grace period) require deliberate effort to find (such as an Include spam? checkbox in Super Search, available to registered users only). Also a huge ++ to the sentiment that unapproved Anonymonk nodes should never be spidered.

Re: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
by Argel (Prior) on Aug 07, 2013 at 21:05 UTC
    I'd also like to see a new area they can be moved to (or perma deleted). If a node is reaped for other reasons then I still want the option to drill down to see the contents. But there is no benefit for most of us to see the contents of a spam node, and they are starting to clutter up some of the sections that do not see many posts.

    UPDATE: Starting to clutter.... My mistake. Looking at New Nodes I'm seeing total spam/total posts over the past 7 days:

    • PM Discuss: 8/13
    • Meditations: 38/41
    • Obfuscation: 1/1
    • CUFP: 4/6

    Questions (SOPW) fares much better (mostly legit nodes with a sprinkle of spam) and spam seems to miss Perl News and the Polls (at least for the past 14 days). 38/41 for Meditations is atrocious!!

    Elda Taluta; Sarks Sark; Ark Arks
    My deviantART gallery

Re: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
by Jim (Curate) on Aug 08, 2013 at 04:25 UTC

    Why not just eliminate the Anonymous Monk user account? IMO, this is the obvious best solution to the problem of spam being posted on PerlMonks.

    UPDATE: This little post of mine is currently Number 1 Worst Node of the Week and Number 2 Worst Node of the Month. J'accuse, PerlMonks! If my simple expression of an apparently unpopular (yet seemingly obvious) alternative way to cope with spam on PerlMonks is the worst thing that's happened here so far in August, then I declare discourse on PerlMonks much more f*d up than my post. I down-vote you, PerlMonks!

      Because many of the most interesting questions and lots of the best, most informative answers are posted by those choosing to do so anonymously.

      There should be no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.


      With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

        The same people who are posting "the most interesting questions and lots of the best, most informative answer" can continue to do so using their registered accounts.

        Getting rid of the Anonymous Monk user account is throwing the bath water out with the bath water. There's nothing about the Anonymous Monk account that I like or wish to preserve. In my opinion, PerlMonks would be better if it were gotten rid of.

      And if/when registered named monks or funny but named monks start posting 'junks'? What then would you do?
      Moreover, there are post that are so wonderful posted by anonymous Monks and one could only think, if only I know who posted that.
      At least I know that in perlguru forum, you can't post anonymously, yet, people still post junks. And I don't think there is a system in place to reap those in my little experience on that forum.
      So, Am with BrowserUk on this.

      If you tell me, I'll forget.
      If you show me, I'll remember.
      if you involve me, I'll understand.
      --- Author unknown to me

        Disable their accounts.

Re: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam! (stopwords)
by Anonymous Monk on Aug 08, 2013 at 09:55 UTC
    Also, why not add to the list of stopwords , esp title stopwords,  fake cheap replica oakley sunglasses ninja chopper blender handbag cause on a programming forum, those things are spam

      ++

      ...

      code-ninja might want to object, though...

      Cheers, Sören

      Créateur des bugs mobiles - let loose once, run everywhere.
      (hooked on the Perl Programming language)

      Sotp wrdos are an amrs rcae. Tinhk aobut how mnay drifeefnt wyas you culod mispell ecah of toshe wrds and siltl hvae them renicogsed


      With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

      One risk of keywords is that some of the legitimate software out there will hit one of them, e.g., blender (http:://www.blender.org), or that somebody will ask a question about cheap IDEs for Perl. Of course, we're all programmers here, so we may be able to come up with a better method. All we have to do is give NodeReaper more power. Maybe so he (she?) can reap spammers, not just their spam....


      Information about American English usage here and here. Floating point issues? Please read this before posting. — emc

        Its not really a risk

        AFAIKIIRC, stopwords are already used here at perlmonks (or maybe its stopurls), in any case, all stopwords do (or should) is increase the $spamcount++

        once a threshhold is reached, post is rejected

        Also blender.org only has python bindings :)

Re: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
by dsheroh (Parson) on Aug 08, 2013 at 10:53 UTC
    There are many around here who tend to encourage people to identify and provide a link if they crosspost their questions to places such as StackOverflow or other forums. Blocking anonymonk from posting non-local links would prevent new visitors from being able to do so without creating an account.

      Blocking anonymonk

      Already happens, as does blocking initiates, for certain types of urls, not http://stackoverflow.com/ you see

      I think I favour my second idea. A spam button combined with tighter control on what can be spidered from here.

      But, as far as banning urls are concerned, if I was implementing it, rather than having to add every new url the spammers come up with to a blacklist; I'd have a whitelist of acceptable urls: cpan etc.

      You could then automate the maintenance of that white list by (say) sending /msg <url> to (say) userid whitelist. If the same url is submitted by 3 or 4 non-anonymous users of sufficient standing, it gets added. (The benefit of this mechanism is that unaccepted urls are never displayed anywhere publicly.)


      With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.
Re: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
by swampyankee (Parson) on Aug 08, 2013 at 13:04 UTC

    Looking at the current Newest Nodes, a large number of the nodes are reaped spam. Perhaps NodeReaper could be given the power to delete them from the list displayed, instead of having them clutter up the page?


    Information about American English usage here and here. Floating point issues? Please read this before posting. — emc

      . Perhaps NodeReaper could be given the power to delete them from the list displayed, instead of having them clutter up the page?

      I think that nodes successfully marked as spam should disappear entirely. The Ids replaced by a simple page "Does not exist" or similar. Leaving them lying around and still accessible seems silly to me.

      But then, I doubt that any change will happen as a result of this thread. I was just 'thinking aloud' as it were.


      With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.
Re: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
by sundialsvc4 (Abbot) on Aug 09, 2013 at 16:07 UTC

    I rather suspect that the “Consider” mechanism ought to be sufficient to (continue to ...) handle this, whenever it (fortunately, rarely) appears.   PM is, by and large, remarkably free of spam, and I think that the “self-policing” mechanisms, working as they should, are responsible for that.   If it ain’t broke . . .

    Also:   I don’t personally believe that author-based heuristics will be useful, or successful:   “user-ids” are just too easy (for a bot) to come by.   When a “bot” comes calling, its authors generally prove to be very ingenious.   (Bah...)

      whenever it (fortunately, rarely) appears.

      If you are not here when it is posted -- usually early hours of the morning US time; then by the time you do visit, it has all been dealt with so you never see it.

      Early and mid-morning European time, its a pain.

      If it aint broke . . .

      You're obviously one of the majority who leave dealing with spam to others.

      The current mechanism is a painful multi-step process.

      1. View node; type reason; check checkbox; click consider; wait for refresh.
      2. Check "reap"; click moderate; wait;
      3. Check downvote; click vote; wait.

      And by the time you've done all that, upto a dozen more have appeared on the RAT page.

      And you can only hope that 3 other monks are around and diligent enough to go through the same process.

      All good and proper for dealing with matters of off-topic nodes, the lack of code tags and correcting titling; but too slow and cumbersome for dealing with spam in a timely manner.

      I dont personally believe that author-based heuristics will be useful, or successful:

      Strange, given that the existing consideration mechanism that you are so supportive of above, is already author-based.

      It requires any monk using it to be a) logged-in; b) of a certain standing -- ie. to have acquired some minimal level of XP to ensure at least some level of worthiness either through attendance or positive contribution.

      And what do you think these ingenious bot authors that you are so enamored of are going to do? Create 4 bot accounts; have them log in every day and answer enough nodes to accumulate sufficient Xp; so that when the bot owner posts spam; he can arrange for his bots to countermand the consideration process by have his bot vote "keep"?

      You really do not think things through do you.


      With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

        It may well be true that most of the spam is coming in when I am asleep ... in which case I for one am most-grateful to those of you out there who laboriously “deal with it.”

        If we are going to come up with some “user-response based” treatment for spam, then I definitely think that this response should include at least these three features:

        1. Get rid of Anonymous Monk.   Maybe there are those who think that the ability to comment and to vote anonymously is a fabulous freedom, but this is the only forum-site that I am aware of which allows it.   It lets someone lurk around the corner and shoot spitballs.
        2. Expand the idea of “up/down voting” (and “consideration”) to include categorized reasons.   A mere number does not say diddly-squat.   Whereas ratings or tags, which can be tabulated, could be very useful indeed, even for years to come.
        3. Consider the utility of allowing the votes of certain users to count many-times more than others.   For instance, Popes such as yourself could nary-well be gods.   Perhaps even with the power to permanently excommunicate pesky fellow Monks with whom Your Eminences simply do not see eye-to-eye?   (It occurs to me that this thought might have for you a certain appeal ...)

      I think we would all agree this is a problem:

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      Sparky
      FMTEYEWTK

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