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### Re^4: Scaling Hash Limits

by Laurent_R (Canon)
 on Sep 20, 2013 at 22:13 UTC ( #1055075=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re^3: Scaling Hash Limits
in thread Scaling Hash Limits

Hi BrowserUk, you're making a very interesting point, which nobody seems to have picked up so far. I can see two ways of significantly reducing the memory required for the task at hand. One is that we probably don't need to worry about 12-digit numbers if we can narrow down the ID range really needed to something of the order of, say, about 200 to 250 million numbers, which seems to be a reasonable hypothesis if the IDs are allocated sequentially by the system. Then once we have such a narrower range, we only basically need only one bit per number in the range, and we just need to set one bit if a particular number has already been seen (so 1 bit per number in the range). These two observations could drive the memory requirement to perhaps 30 megabytes, if I can still think clearly this late in the evening, but I can't see how to reduce this memory requirement to only 4 megabytes 8 megabytes. I would be grateful if you could enlighten me on this, and I am sure many others would benefit from these ideas.

Update: corrected my error of inattention: BrowserUk said 8 megabytes, not 4 megabytes.

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Re^5: Scaling Hash Limits
by BrowserUk (Pope) on Sep 20, 2013 at 23:13 UTC
but I can't see how to reduce this memory requirement to only 4 megabytes.

I said ~ 8 megabytes not 4.

In Scaling Hash Limits the OP said: "my simple hash of scalars (for duplicate detection) hits a size of over 55 million"

55 million / 8 / 1024**2 = 6.55651092529296875 MB.

He also mentions 180 million: 180e6 / 8 / 1024**2 = 21.457672119140625 MB. But that's before de-duping, the purpose of the exercise. But its possible his list contains no duplicates.

Of course, looking around I see that twitter uses 64-bit numbers for their user ids. And that it 20 digits not 12. Then again, they are only just now claiming 500 million users which is: 500e6 / 8 / 1024**2 = 59.604644775390625 MB which should be handleable by any modern machine with ease.

Of course, it is also possible that they do not use sequential numbers for their IDs, but rather the 64-bit number is a hash of some aspect of the account -- the name or similar -- in which case the idea won't work because 2**64 / 8 / 1024**3 ~= 2 billion GB.

But if that were the case, the OP probably wouldn't be talking about "12-digit numbers".

Of course, the OP also doesn't explicitly mention 'user' ids, just "ids", and given the number -- 180 million; roughly the number of twits per day currently -- these could be message ids; which probably are allocated sequentially?

Had the OP deigned to answer a couple of questions, much of the uncertainty could have been resolved.

With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
"Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

Thank you for your interesting answer, BrowserUk, I can see that we are thinking of more or less the same type of techniques. It is just that the OP did not provide enough detailed information for us to be able to make very accurate predictions on what it would take. My own understanding was that the IDs probably referred to message IDs, thus making sequential allocation quite plausible, but, of course, we don't know for sure.

Re^5: Scaling Hash Limits
by Anonymous Monk on Sep 20, 2013 at 23:16 UTC

Thank you for this pointer to the other post, I had not seen the other post before.

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