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Re: Women Programmers, Sex, Tai Chi and Reincarnation

by cacharbe (Curate)
on Aug 18, 2001 at 06:34 UTC ( #105864=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Women Programmers, Sex, Tai Chi and Reincarnation

Sweet Jesus.

The supposition that how clean you keep your self, and what shape you're in, will have any impact on how many women are in our industry (or any technical industry for that matter) is one of the most chauvanistic, narcissitic things I've ever heard. How demeaning to women that we would think that they would want to "Join Our Club" based on how good we look.

What keeps women out of our industry is the belief by men that they aren't good enough, and it gets pushed down the line, my friend.

If you want to see more women in our industry, start teaching young women and little girls that It's okay to:

  • be intelligent, ask questions, have an opinion
  • To experiemnet
  • To have a positive Body image
  • To stand up for themselves

And, you also have to teach young men and little boys that it's okay for women to:

  • be intelligent, ask questions, have an opinion
  • To experiemnet
  • To have a positive Body image
  • To stand up for themselves

And that it's not okay to:
  • Mock, discriminate
  • persecute
  • belittle
  • abuse

women in anyway. And until that happens, there will continue to be gender casting of our children, both male and female, there will continue to be children that are abused mentally and physically and thus taught that they aren't good enough to fulfill their dreams, or have aspirations.

Yes, we are responsible for who makes up our ranks, but it is much more than our appearance, it is our mind set, it is our continued demeaning of gender, and it is sad that so few of us see it.

That just pissed me off.

C-.


Comment on Re: Women Programmers, Sex, Tai Chi and Reincarnation
Re: Re: Women Programmers, Sex, Tai Chi and Reincarnation
by mugwumpjism (Hermit) on Aug 19, 2001 at 12:57 UTC

    Hmm. Perhaps I didn't make it clear in my original post that this consideration applies mostly in school (I was told once in school that I shouldn't take a class because I might be the only boy in the class!), and in University. Basically, any educational institution that involves computers and young males.

    I wasn't saying that women conciously make the decision to join some exclusive club. But I saw what happened to women that dared venture into the computer rooms in school and university. Basically all the women were hit on, especially if they showed any talent. In uni it wasn't so bad, the geeks were more subtle by then with their urges. But if you knew any body language you'd spot them doing it a mile off.

      And that, right there, is my point.

      That is discrimination. You being told not to go to a class, the women being hit on because the coders are desperate sad sacks.

      I know how it is.. I was there. I lived this every day in school, and a still do in the business world. I was in all AP classes in Highschool, and was CS in college. I went to Michigan Technological University starting in 1991, my friend. I experienced the 3 guys to 1 girl ratio every day at the school level. Dwell on this... There were THREE women in my class (Class of '94) in CS at the time THREE. Funny enough, I was friends with all of them, and I associate that to the fact that I never tried to take advantage of them, treated them as people first, and women next. It's not that hard.

      They had to deal with morons hitting on them all day, but that wasn't a big issue for them. The issue they had was that many of the men thought that they couldn't do it on their own, and were trying to show off how smart they were by asking the women if they wanted to work on assignments together by saying "I could give you a hand with that."

      The issue they had was that the advisors singled them out, the teachers as well.

      obTeachers: I did have one female CS instructor. Mean old broad, and she was the worst offender. She worked one of my friends so hard (Didn't have time for her during office hours, would tell her to go and figure stuff out on her own) that she left the deaprtment for a semester. I suppose she was trying to build their character, toughening the women if she couldn't break the chain.

      It isn't an excuse to say that it only happens at school or that you are only talking about an educational environment, it doesn't and that environment is merely a microcsom of the real world, and it belittles how hard women in any technical industry (in life, for that matter) have to work just to prove that they can be equal, let alone accel.

      C-.

        People often base their decisions on the path of least resistance; that is, the path that causes the least discomfort for them. "Having to deal with morons hitting on them all day" is a discomfort that girls will probably have to deal with to some extent in any University no matter what course they are taking, but my argument is that it happens more often around people that have sex less often. And what do women in general (not necessarily the people actually taking the courses up) base their decisions to enter into a relationship with someone on? Lots of things. But one fairly large factor is their physical build of the other person; animal attraction. Being unfit is a sign of unbalance, so it's a healthy behavioural pattern for a species to naturally like the idea of sleeping with fitter people.

        Picture a woman still unsure which course to take, sociology or computer science, visiting a university on its open day. Picking the crowd they will be associating with is an important part of their decision. Not to be sneezed at, either - if you find a crowd you to study with that you can build a synergy with, then the decision becomes quite respectable.

        Taking up a martial art can often be the thing that kick starts an imbalanced person to do something about other faults in their life, too - most people will say that martial arts transformed their life, helped them restore missing balance. Other people take it up for 6 months and then give it up; usually because they have a crap teacher or it's an external martial style, and they simply started getting hurt too much (back to that discomfort issue).

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