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Re^11: Patience is a Monk Virtue

by Your Mother (Archbishop)
on Nov 15, 2017 at 16:05 UTC ( [id://1203489]=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^10: Patience is a Monk Virtue
in thread Patience is a Monk Virtue

My reasoning is chiefly freedom based. Economics is a defining factor in freedom so I see no flaw. Without total freedom of money, there is no individual freedom. Economics was the copilot in all the death described in this thread.

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Re^12: Patience is a Monk Virtue
by LanX (Saint) on Nov 15, 2017 at 16:58 UTC
    Still, while the EU is also an attempt to play in the same heavy weight league like the US or China, it is not a unit where you need force for secession.

    As demonstrated, EU member states are free to leave and all regional independence movements I've seen so far (Scotland, Catalonia, Lega Nort,...) expressively want to stay inside the EU.

    Finally I'm not aware of any EU atrocities.

    There is a tendency in the British press to compare the EU with the 3rd Reich or the USSR, and so I can't leave this uncommented.

    Cheers Rolf
    (addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :)
    Je suis Charlie!

      Well, be fair, there was definitely state coercion and a little resulting violence in Catalonia lately.

      There have been no specifically EU atrocities except as the EU has supported the US's irrational, violent nonsense. The Iraq invasion probably would not have happened without key EU member support and troop pledges. But, again, atrocities are not my primary motivation so for me, it's not a meaningful rebuttal. Freedom is my motivation. I just think it creates the greatest possibilities for a richer and more peaceful world. And to clarify, when I say I want smaller, or at the least, weaker, states I don't mean isolated ones. Freedom means open borders and trade.

      Decentralization empowers individuals. I can speak at a county council meeting today and be heard. I could work my whole life and never get to address the US House and even then, I'm talking to 100 members who showed up, 3 of whom are listening, and 300+ empty chairs.

      Political decentralization has a lot in common with open source software.

      Decentralization focuses expertise and interest on one's immediate sphere instead of opening the possibility of exerting power over others at any distance, whether it is a protectionist trade agreement slowly making one country richer by draining the money from another or a single person pushing the launch button on a Predator's control panel. Personal responsibility is a key aspect of freedom. There is no personal responsibility in the state.

      PerlMonks is going to need a rebranding if this thread lives much longer. :P

        You continue with this fundamental misunderstanding of the EU being a "state".

        > Well, be fair, there was definitely state coercion and a little resulting violence in Catalonia lately.

        The conflict in Catalonia is purely internal, and Brussels denies being used by one or the other side.

        The EU has only very limited possibilities to control or "punish" a member state.

        Actually it was the EU ( well rather the predecessor "European Community" ) which helped transforming Spain and Portugal into stable democracies.

        It's like blaming a club if one of his members is quarrelling with his wife.

        > There have been no specifically EU atrocities except as the EU has supported the US's irrational, violent nonsense

        Some member states supported the Iraq invasion (UK and Poland*), others opposed it strictly (Germany and France).

        The EU as such wasn't involved!!!

        Keep in mind that some EU members (Austria, Sweden, Finland, Ireland ) are NOT in the NATO and some neutral by constitution!

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :)
        Je suis Charlie!

        *) actually Poland was at that time not a EU member yet.

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