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Re: 標eb Security

by Ryszard (Priest)
on Jun 22, 2002 at 18:56 UTC ( #176511=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Web Security

I went on a course one time. It classified people into four general categories:

  1. Unconsciously Incompetent
  2. Consciously Incompetent
  3. Unconsciously Competent
  4. Consciously Competent.

It strikes me that the original programmer may have been point 1. However the new programmer after instruction from an experienced programmer may be point 2 and heading toward point 4.

What is interesting to me, is that if a website is a very high profile website then the management around the webiste may be in the point 1 mark also.

I 1st had to learn perl in order to build a public website that would be high profile within $MY_ISP. Before building the website, I consulted unix admin on the aspects of the server security, and did quite a bit of research on the aspects of building a secure website.

I guess this is interesting to me because i dont understand why people dont do some research into areas that a) they may be novice in and b) there is bound to be lots of information out there on said topic.

This is espeically "interesting" if there is a potential for serious consequences.

Not too much of a point in the rambling, save that I personally dont understand why people go into projects where the element of risk is high (due to experience and environment) unprepared.

Its just not rocket science to have a google and its inexcusable not to.


Comment on Re: 標eb Security
Re: Re: 標eb Security
by chaoticset (Chaplain) on Jun 22, 2002 at 21:41 UTC
    What is interesting to me, is that if a website is a very high profile website then the management around the webiste may be in the point 1 mark also.

    Most management is in the first category. There's a reason for that -- their job is a nebulous one, one that's hard to do right and harder to estimate the quality of from the outside.

    I'm not apologizing for bad management; it's repugnant that an important job (oversight and organizational design) is so often done by wretched social whores. My point is that the job has high complexity and less supervision, and is therefore likely to be a place that incompetents unconsciously set out to end up.

    I guess this is interesting to me because i dont understand why people dont do some research into areas that a) they may be novice in and b) there is bound to be lots of information out there on said topic.

    People don't do research because it's hard. There are a class of people who don't do hard things. They don't like hard things because doing hard things invites failure, and failure scares them. Those people push to be managers for the bad reason: Low accountability, easy blame possibilities, high income, etc.

    -----------------------
    You are what you think.

Re^2: Web Security
by tadman (Prior) on Jun 23, 2002 at 01:24 UTC
    Recently, a friend of mine told me about the same classification regarding the process of learning any skill, but it was ordered slightly differently. It's a really concise and non-abstract way of encapsulating the learning process, which is helpful when people just don't "get" things like Zen philosophy. A few annotations might clarify:
    1. Unconciously Incompetent - Ignorant of your own lack of ability, unaware of any structure or limitations, and have no idea of the big picture. May perform by imitation and without understanding the rationale.
    2. Conciously Incompetent - Realization of structure, scope, and limitations. Have an idea as to how to things work, but perhaps an incomplete one, and are still learning how to operate effectively.
    3. Conciously Competent - Have "seen the elephant", understand how things work, and have enough experience to not get into trouble. However, a certain amount of deliberate concentration is required in order to perform. There is a little hesitation and uncertainty.
    4. Unconciously Competent - Performing no longer requires active effort, as practice has made this habitual and innate.
    In a nutshell, you start out having no idea you know nothing, and end up with no idea how much you know.
Re: Re: 標eb Security
by Juerd (Abbot) on Jun 23, 2002 at 10:05 UTC

    I went on a course one time. It classified people into four general categories: Unconsciously Incompetent ; Consciously Incompetent ; Unconsciously Competent ; Consciously Competent.

    Was the course a book called "Mega Memory" by Kevin Trudeau?

    - Yes, I reinvent wheels.
    - Spam: Visit eurotraQ.
    

      It was a couse I attended while working for a Bank in Australia. It was meant to promote harmony and communication among employees who all had their own agenda's (that often conflicted).

      The funny part was the course was originally aimed at senior management, and they thought it as so worthwhile it filtered down to the rank and file... :-)

Re: Re: 標eb Security
by Anonymous Monk on Jun 23, 2002 at 20:55 UTC
    I suppose these categorizations could be coined "2-bit competencies".

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