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Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery

by moxliukas (Curate)
on Aug 27, 2002 at 22:14 UTC ( #193293=monkdiscuss: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

As all of us are aware, Perl6 is coming. While it is still a year or two away (to my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong) I think it brings some issues to our Monastery. Perl6 is not just about a new version of Perl. It is also about Parrot. Parrot is a Virtual Machine for Perl6 but will also allow other languages to be used (languages like Ruby or Python -- there are already some new languages emerging written specifically for Parrot).

My question would be about the policy regarding all these new exciting things. Will perlmonks.org be a strictly Perl6 focused community only discussing Parrot issues strictly related to Perl6 and considering, let's say, questions about integrating Ruby with Parrot, offtopic? What about the Code section? Will Parrot assembly code belong there or will it be considered offtopic? Indeed, I already have some Parrot assembly code that I would like to post, but is that appropriate?

My opinion on this whole issue is that things relating to Parrot should be OK, but I think it will be very difficult to draw the line where "strictly Parrot" ends and offtopic begins. What are your thoughts on the subject?

Comment on Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
Re: Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
by FoxtrotUniform (Prior) on Aug 27, 2002 at 22:21 UTC

    Since parrot's development is AFAICT completely motivated by Perl 6 (in that support for other languages is a nifty feature, but Perl 6 is parrot's reason for being), I'd consider parrot-related issues to be on-topic enough for the Monastery. For instance, asking for help with your Scheme code wouldn't magically become on-topic just because your Scheme of choice runs on parrot, but asking about the parrot<=>Scheme interface, or some such, would. I think it's reasonable to expect people working with Perl 6 to have some interest in parrot-related questions.

    --
    F o x t r o t U n i f o r m
    Found a typo in this node? /msg me
    The hell with paco, vote for Erudil!

      Perl 6 is parrot's main reason for being, but IMHO it's /very/ important that it be a viable platform for running other things on, and that it actualy be used for that. It'll make it that much more likely that XS-like things that currently rely on reverse-engeneering and people's free time will, in the Parrot World, get supported by vendors. If parrot becomes the platform of choice for Python, Ruby, and Perl6, and vendors can support all three in One Fell Swoop, it's that much more likely that they will.

      And, wonderful as CPAN is, think how much better it will be if you can take existing Python and Ruby code and integrate it into your Perl6 project without even thinking about it, with a simple use Whatever :py; (or whatever it ends up being).

      Parrot being the defacto standard for other languages makes somthing that would be wonderful (and somwhat unlikely) that much more likely -- a parrot interpreter having hooks into a decent percentage of the installed base of browsers, and I very much look forward to being able to script browsers in parrot.

      Perl6 may be the reason for building parrot, but if it becomes the only reason for running parrot, I'll be very disapointed.

      (And I very much hope that ActiveState sees the light about taking an active posture in supporting parrot for it's other languages.)

      Update: I was going to post this as a sepperate node, but I don't really have that much to say on it -- FoxtrotUniform++; couldn't have said it better myself. But I'd just like to note somthing -- "how do I tye my scheme and ruby code together" is a parrot issue, even though it has nothing to do with perl and a lot to do with scheme and ruby. It should probably be considered on-topic ground... but as with every other interface between ontopic and offtopic, it in no small part around here will depend on the actions of the voters, monks+ and editors who happen to be around when it comes up. One of the great things about the monastery is how self-regulating it is, normaly with a minimum of bickering.


      Confession: It does an Immortal Body good.

Re: Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
by Aristotle (Chancellor) on Aug 27, 2002 at 23:15 UTC
    I believe we will see a comparable amount of Parrot questions as we see ones relating to Apache, SQL and similar topics, if that much. They'll be there, but not a whole lot of them. Most people will probably be as concerned with Parrot as they are with Perl5 XS coding, hacking around in the guts using the B::* modules, or on the other side of the fence, writing Java VM assembly.

    Makeshifts last the longest.

Re: Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
by sauoq (Abbot) on Aug 28, 2002 at 00:30 UTC
    My opinion on this whole issue is that things relating to Parrot should be OK, but I think it will be very difficult to draw the line where "strictly Parrot" ends and offtopic begins. What are your thoughts on the subject?

    I think the Monastery is flexible enough to "bend with the breeze" and that the voting system will continue to determine what is offtopic and what isn't.

    -sauoq
    "My two cents aren't worth a dime.";
    
(OT) How far we've come...
by sfink (Deacon) on Aug 28, 2002 at 20:39 UTC
    As all of us are aware, Perl6 is coming.

    Wow. We've come so far. Not so very long ago, people seemed to be heavily debating whether Perl6 would ever come to pass. Now it's accepted with enough confidence that we're starting to worry about what to do when it arrives!

Re: Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
by Mr. Muskrat (Abbot) on Aug 28, 2002 at 22:50 UTC

    Perl6 will run in Parrot as will the untold millions of other languages.
    Okay, maybe millions is too big of a number. ;)
    So I would say, "Let there be Parrot talk here." Now for those who
    have never heard a parrot talk, let me tell you, it's more squawk than
    talk. This brings me to the next order of business...

    Perhaps a new section is in order... Parrot Squawk!?!!!

Re: Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
by chaoticset (Chaplain) on Aug 29, 2002 at 02:28 UTC
    Perhaps a time will come shortly where Parrot hackers, aficianados, and newbies have a site together, much like Perlmonks.

    This site would, of course, be called "Parrot Pirates". :)

    -----------------------
    You are what you think.

Re: Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
by screamingeagle (Curate) on Aug 29, 2002 at 07:27 UTC
    i believe that , as long as any technology, be it Parrot, be it Perl.NET (yes, even though .NET is related to microsoft (gasp ! have i committed heresy ?!? ;-) ), or be it anything else, as long as Perl is, or can be used to write programs to use those technologies, there's no harm in using this site to discuss about such issues...and , as usual, we should leave it to the wise monks to filter out what's relevant and what's not...
Re: Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
by richardX (Pilgrim) on Aug 29, 2002 at 22:28 UTC
    Parrot talk here in the Monkdome would be cool. Maybe we could categorize each thread by an icon like in Slashdot. The icon could then help easily identify the thread so that you could decide weither to look at it or not. If not an icon then some kind of other flag would be fine.

    Richard

    There are three types of people in this world, those that can count and those that cannot. Anon

Re: Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
by frankus (Priest) on Aug 30, 2002 at 09:41 UTC
    Will perlmonks.org be a strictly Perl6 focused community only discussing Parrot issues strictly related to Perl6 and considering, let's say, questions about integrating Ruby with Parrot

    Since Perl6 will also integrate with the JVM and perhaps .NET, this would swamp the site with irrelevancies like Java, VB, C#. So my vote is for NO.

    However we will have a bit of a gap in the site as the obfuscated code section is going to be rather sparsely populated or full of code that uses Perl 6's backward compatability pragma (alledgedly).

    --

    Brother Frankus.

    ¤

Multiple Perl implementations?
by blssu (Pilgrim) on Aug 30, 2002 at 17:11 UTC
    Talking about Parrot seems pretty safe -- it's not much different (in theory) than talking about XS or perlguts. The stranger possibility is talking about more than one implementation of Perl 6. The Python community has C-Python, J-Python and Stackless Python. The Java community has dozens of implementations. How would the Perl community react to multiple implementations of Perl?
Re: Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
by adamsj (Hermit) on Aug 30, 2002 at 23:37 UTC
    I think Larry gave us a hint in the last part of the State of the Onion this year. Since I don't see it in the St. Larry Wall Shrine yet, I'll take the liberty of pointing to my real-time weblog thereof.

    adamsj

    They laughed at Joan of Arc, but she went right ahead and built it. --Gracie Allen

Re: Future of Perl, Future of the Monastery
by dada (Chaplain) on Sep 02, 2002 at 09:46 UTC
    I also feel the (urgent!) need to have Parrot discussed here. I suggest we add yet another brand new section to the monastery. and its name shall be: Things With Wings.

    cheers,
    Aldo

    King of Laziness, Wizard of Impatience, Lord of Hubris

      Umm, I don't think anybody really considers Parrot OT here... post away, dada.


      Confession: It does an Immortal Body good.

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