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Re: Re: Abstain option?

by sauoq (Abbot)
on Sep 10, 2002 at 18:55 UTC ( #196784=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Abstain option?
in thread Abstain option?

No offense meant at all, but I don't understand the point

It would simply be in order to see the node reputation. Given that a saint who uses all of his votes everyday still couldn't learn the reputation of half of the new posts daily, I think this makes good sense.

As for your idea about seeing how other Monks voted, I think it is horrid. There are a myriad of reasons why voting should stay anonymous. I think your proposal would encourage a dangerous mix of bandwagon voting and personality voting which might be described as "idol voting." In other words, we might find people voting for a node based only on the fact that their favorite saint already voted on it too.

-sauoq
"My two cents aren't worth a dime.";


Comment on Re: Re: Abstain option?
Re: Re: Re: Abstain option?
by tjh (Curate) on Sep 10, 2002 at 20:22 UTC
    As for your idea about seeing how other Monks voted, I think it is horrid.

    True, I agree. I wasn't proposing it. But, given the proper self restraint, it would be interesting. :)

    Meanwhile, I too am in favor of having to take nodes at face value as talexb mentioned earlier. It's the simplest, most elegant answer to having votes and XP at all.

    Every thread I've read, and each time I too have tried to think about additional value that might be wrung out of the point/XP system, ends up in a variety of dead ends with more complication than one would want.

    Ultimately, I end up back at being ok with a simple, unalloyed, voting/experience system such as we have. So far, any other complexity or augmentation just seems to fall flat in debate.

      So far, any other complexity or augmentation just seems to fall flat in debate.

      I have yet to be convinced that this idea is without merit. Mostly, the argument against it goes something like: node reputation is meaningless anyway so this is pointless. My rebuttal goes something along the lines of: node reputation isn't meaningless because we have it and use it; so let's make it more useful. At which point, someone else comes along and says reputation is meaningless anyway so this is pointless.

      I've noticed this whole cycle is prevelant throughout the world whenever any change is proposed. Mostly, people just want to maintain the status quo. The naysayers are usually the loudest. However, given the reputation that the original suggestion got and the fact that some of the first replies were supportive, I'd guess there is moderate interest in the idea.1 I think this is indicative of a general feeling that the system should be updated even if ever so slightly, to help enhance its usefulness.

      Every thread I've read, and each time I too have tried to think about additional value that might be wrung out of the point/XP system, ends up in a variety of dead ends with more complication than one would want.

      Perhaps the authors of those threads didn't have the same ideas, hadn't fleshed them out as well, or couldn't explain them sufficiently. If you want to effectively debate my point, explain to me how this idea results in unwanted complications?

      1That's yet another example of using the metainformation contained in the node reputation to draw a meaningful conclusion. Notice that I don't use it in isolation. Also notice that, rather than draw a hard conclusion, I use it to assist me in hazarding a guess.
      -sauoq
      "My two cents aren't worth a dime.";
      

        I voted ++ on your initial post, but that doesn't mean I agree. I don't see harm in your proposal, true enough, but neither do I expect any significant improvement from it. Maybe that's because I'm hardly interested in node reputations; I've pretty nearly never voted on a node just to be able to see its reputation, so eh..

        The only argument that doesn't go either way in this context is that according to the pmdevils, the votes table is by far the table in the database. An unlimited abstain option may (or may not, natch) bloat it significantly more.

        Makeshifts last the longest.

        I can't agree more. There is something so irrational in the denial of value for the experience system and denial to improve it - looks like a taboo thing. Being a newcomer here I feel a bit awkward to analyze that.

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